Do You Think Infinite Lives is Cheating?

[Forlorn Drifter]

Which brings me to a question: Do you think there's a correlation between a person's tendency to game in groups (and I mean all games, not just multiplayer) and their enjoyment of Let's Plays? I'm just wondering if people who are more likely to game alone are less likely to find Let's Plays appealing.

I can see merit in this. I don't often game in groups, but I love to because of the social aspect of it, and I like Let's Plays to an extent. I love having people watch me game, or watching until my turn comes up or whatever. Its fun to me.

But I don't really watch many Let's Plays for that purpose. Usually, its either a game I'll never play, like some obscure retro game on a system I don't want to own, or a PC game with keyboard use required, or I'm using it to get an idea if I'll like the game.

The other time I occasionally watch them is if it is a really interesting playthrough, like with some predetermined rules to increase difficulty (like that no healing Fallout:NV run), or roleplaying a character that ISN'T ridiculous/trying to be funny. One example was a Skyrim runthrough where the LP'er played as an Orc, and stuck to the lore 100%.
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Infinite lives is cheating, to be on topic. As is using a guide on your first runthrough unless you are absolutely and completely stuck.

[BoneSnapDeez]

I use guides quite a bit. Both printed strategy guides and those found on GameFAQs, RPG Classics, StrategyWiki, etc...

I also have a taste for obtuse retro RPGs.

It's important to keep in mind that a large portion of retro games came packaged with maps, hint books, and sometimes full-blown walkthroughs. Look at the early Ultima titles, Phantasy Star II, Dragon Quest III, EarthBound, and so on. Even Zelda came with a map of some sort. Of course, from a programming perspective, it was probably easier to simply print materials like that than include tutorials and maps in the games themselves. Many of these games were developed by very small teams of people.

I see internet walkthroughs as de facto "replacements" for all of these supplemental materials that have since been lost to time.

Generally I'll start a game and then get a "feel" about whether some sort of walkthrough use is at all necessary. With a game like Secret of the Stars I could tell I wanted one right away, as the game is vague as hell and terribly designed. With Legend of Heroes IV I didn't peak at one until about 20 hours in. Gurumin, Code of Princess, Muramasa - no walkthroughs at all. Those are just a few examples out of hundreds.

"I don't want to miss anything"

This does baffle me a bit, especially in reference to modern RPGs. A lot of content that is well-hidden ends up being crap: random "costumes" and bullshit collectibles (for achievement/trophy purposes) or whatever. Playing a video game in a super-pedantic fashion like this comes off more like "work" than "fun."

That said, there are also games that tuck away essential stuff in the most infuriating way possible. I felt like Star Ocean 2 pulled this shit more than a few times.

[Exhuminator]

It's important to keep in mind that a large portion of retro games came packaged with maps, hint books, and sometimes full-blown walkthroughs.

If you do your homework and find out the game came with that stuff, than using supplemental material that falls within the verbatim range of what was already there is fair and square.

Personally I won't use a walkthrough unless a game goes cold on me and leaves me with no idea where to go. Sometimes this was done intentionally with older RPGs as a way to artificially lengthen game time, and also as a way to justify selling accompanying strategy guides in tandem. Both are practices I never agreed with, but thankfully this sort of thing faded away over time. I think it had to do with the advent of the internet and the creation of sites like GameFAQs that allow people to download free walkthroughs. No point in requiring a walkthrough you're not going to sell.

Once in a great while if I'm playing a Japanese only RPG or adventure game, I will use a walkthrough to get past the language barrier, but that's only fair really.

Playing a video game in a super-pedantic fashion like this comes off more like "work" than "fun."

I agree. It's just busy work at that point. That's also how I feel about people who spend a hundred or two hundred hours doing the most menial bullshit imaginable to get every achievement and "platinum" a game. I understand beating a long game, but spending another hundred hours to get all the achievements is an unimaginable waste of time in my eyes. You could watch fifty movies in that extra hundred hours or beat a dozen other shortish games. Or even finally fix that leaky faucet in the guest bathroom.

[KayJay]

Not in the slightest. not only does the game come with the feature, which literally means it's not cheating, but some games, like Rayman Origins, are still very tough, regardless of life count.


Also, I find the concept of lives pretty cheap. Real challenge is in the level design, not restricting your tries.

[KayJay]

It's important to keep in mind that a large portion of retro games came packaged with maps, hint books, and sometimes full-blown walkthroughs.

If you do your homework and find out the game came with that stuff, than using supplemental material that falls within the verbatim range of what was already there is fair and square.

Personally I won't use a walkthrough unless a game goes cold on me and leaves me with no idea where to go. Sometimes this was done intentionally with older RPGs as a way to artificially lengthen game time, and also as a way to justify selling accompanying strategy guides in tandem. Both are practices I never agreed with, but thankfully this sort of thing faded away over time. I think it had to do with the advent of the internet and the creation of sites like GameFAQs that allow people to download free walkthroughs. No point in requiring a walkthrough you're not going to sell.

Once in a great while if I'm playing a Japanese only RPG or adventure game, I will use a walkthrough to get past the language barrier, but that's only fair really.

Playing a video game in a super-pedantic fashion like this comes off more like "work" than "fun."

I agree. It's just busy work at that point. That's also how I feel about people who spend a hundred or two hundred hours doing the most menial bullshit imaginable to get every achievement and "platinum" a game. I understand beating a long game, but spending another hundred hours to get all the achievements is an unimaginable waste of time in my eyes. You could watch fifty movies in that extra hundred hours or beat a dozen other shortish games. Or even finally fix that leaky faucet in the guest bathroom.

I totally agree. I always thought "getting Platinum" was a waste of time, IMO.


I only use FAQ's to gauge how long i have left in the game, not for any actual help, however.

[Erik_Twice]

Also, I find the concept of lives pretty cheap. Real challenge is in the level design, not restricting your tries.

Ah, but lives are part of the level design! To be more precise, they are the key component of the learning process that define the games themselves. Games like Castlevania or Gradius just wouldn't work properly with infinite lives.

[KayJay]

Also, I find the concept of lives pretty cheap. Real challenge is in the level design, not restricting your tries.

Ah, but lives are part of the level design! To be more precise, they are the key component of the learning process that define the games themselves. Games like Castlevania or Gradius just wouldn't work properly with infinite lives.

That is true, I didn't think about that. side scrolling shooters definately need lives, now that i think about it.

i do, however, think that some games like Mega Man (which i love to pieces) rely too much on the difficulty of losing lives. the level design is tough enough as it is, same for the bosses.

[Exhuminator]

If you had infinite lives, you'd have no real impetus to get extremely good at traversing multiple levels without failure. Having limited lives forces the player to be more strategic and truly learn the intricacies of the gameplay, in such a way as to persevere by skill rather than attrition.

[prfsnl_gmr]

That is true, I didn't think about that. side scrolling shooters definately need lives, now that i think about it.

Not R-Type Delta. Even after you unlock unlimited continues, the game is still brutally, brutally difficult.

[TSTR]

Does R-Type Delta use checkpoints? Checkpoint shooters seem like they could still function as a challenge even with infinite lives/continues, since you usually have to start over vastly underpowered when you die.