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Luke
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Re: Image Link Dump Thread.

Post by Luke »

prfsnl_gmr wrote:While economics may not be a physical science, it is nonetheless a science like biology or physics.
I'll call you Mr. Fantastic, cause you be a stretchin'.

I changed my mba major from economics because it was exactly like psychology; no proof of anything.

And the word physics is derived from the word physical, so I have no clue where you are going with that.

Not saying these topics aren't interesting or thought provoking, but the twiddling of thumbs and mind is uninteresting to me. Unless it involves a video game.
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prfsnl_gmr
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Re: Image Link Dump Thread.

Post by prfsnl_gmr »

science - a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws

physical science - any of the natural sciences dealing with inanimate matter or with energy, as physics, chemistry, and astronomy

physics - the science that deals with matter, energy, motion, and force

particle physics - the branch of physics that deals with the properties and behavior of elementary particles.

.....

science - a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws

social science - the study of society and social behavior.

economics - the science that deals with the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services, or the material welfare of humankind.

econometrics - the application of mathematics, statistical methods, and computer science, to economic data; the branch of economics that aims to give empirical content to economic relations.

.....

I'm not stretching, but you may nonetheless continue to call me Mr. Fantastic.
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Luke
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Re: Image Link Dump Thread.

Post by Luke »

Economics is a theory. As is Marketing, as is Management.

I'm astonished I'm even having this conversation with someone with your level of intelligence. Even if you try to demolish and diminish mine by providing definitions of common day words. (I know you're just engaging in debate, so please realize satire when it is involved).

There are calculations involved, but they don't always calculate appropriately. Economists look into a crystal and say "Based upon my calculations this might happen", and hope people believe what they say.

Accounting, on the other hand, is "Here are the numbers". Economists always disagree because not one of them can predict the future but try to.

Do I really need to cite the most famous economists? All that are full of shit. Really? Should I bring in cramer and his ilk in this to prove my point?





When an accountant is asked on fiscal situations they'll provide numbers and trends that they don't invest in, as that is not their job. Economists play "I know the future" game and hope for the best. They are Pete Carrol. If the TD pass went to win a SuperBowl, they are crowned. If the Pats intercept the ball, Pete is the dumbest head coach of the year.

Economists flip the coin and rely on it.
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o.pwuaioc
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Re: Image Link Dump Thread.

Post by o.pwuaioc »

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation."

Also, Luke, your post essentially boils down to "Economics is BS because some self-proclaimed economists peddle junk." Medicine must be theory too since there's a snake oil salesman somewhere in the world.
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prfsnl_gmr
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Re: Image Link Dump Thread.

Post by prfsnl_gmr »

Luke wrote:I'm astonished I'm even having this conversation with someone with your level of intelligence.
Yeah, I know. I can't believe I am having this conversation either.

First, you are misusing the term "theory". Generally, that term means a "coherent group of . . . general propositions . . . that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena." It might also mean "a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation." Correct uses of the term would be "theory of relativity," "price theory," theory of evolution," and "conspiracy theory." Again, saying that economics is a "theory" makes no more sense than calling history, marketing, physics, or zoology a "theory." At the very least, you would have to agree that all of those are "fields of study," if not sciences.

I think you are using the term "theory" to mean "something that cannot be confirmed". Again, however, you are wrong with regard to economics. Unlike history, literature, or religious studies, economics is based on both mathematics and observation. (Of all the social sciences, it reminds me the most of physics.) That is, an economist develops a theory, like price theory, to explain observed phenomena based on mathematics, her own experiences, and a series of simplifying assumptions. She then gathers data to confirm this theory. If the theory does not hold up, then she tries to determine why it did not - perhaps modifying her assumptions. (Physics works pretty much the same way.)

Certainly, calculations do not always work, but there is a lot more to economic predictions than simply gazing into a crystal ball. Moreover, "predicting the future" is no more the point of economics than "predicting the future" is the point of any other science. The point is to explain observed phenomena. (Making a prediction based on these explanations is certainly a nice benefit, however.) Just as an engineer might say, "Based upon my calculations, it might fly," an economist might say, "Based on my calculations, U.S. GDP migight increase by 5% in the fourth quarter of 2015." The difference is that the economist has to take into account infinitely more variables and contingencies. Moreover, the fact that economists' predictions are not always correct - or even that economists ague over economic forecasts - is no reason to disregard the science. (Also, serious economists are probably arguing over which variables to consider and assumptions to jettison. There typically isn't much disagreement with regard to the "equations that don't hold up" among professional economists.) Engineers do not always agree as to whether something will work, and certainly, prototypes do not always align with a final design. (There are also numerous unsolved physics problems.) Yet, you certainly wouldn't argue that we should completely disregard aerospace engineering or physics.

I spent a lot more than $75K to receive an economics degree from one of the nation's most prestigious universities; so, maybe I'm a bit biased. In my experience, however, professional economists are incredibly intelligent people who use incredibly complex equations to explain observed behavior. They also have a preternatural ability to predict the future rivaled only by meteorologists. They do not, however, exercise complete control over public policy - our laws would look a lot different if they did - nor are any of them capable of considering all of the nearly infinite variables that determine outcomes. The fact that there predictions are not always correct and the fact that they cannot single-handedly avert recessions do not mean that we should disregard the field entirely, nor do they take away from the fact that economics, like biology or physics, is a science.
o.pwuaioc wrote:"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation."

Also, Luke, your post essentially boils down to "Economics is BS because some self-proclaimed economists peddle junk." Medicine must be theory too since there's a snake oil salesman somewhere in the world.
Thank you o.pwuaioc. You said that a lot more concisely than me. :lol:
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marurun
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Re: Image Link Dump Thread.

Post by marurun »

Economics is definitely a social science as opposed to a "hard" science. I dislike that some folks like to draw a very deep line in the sand between biology, chemistry, and physics and everything else, but there is some limited validity to the distinction. Social sciences have a harder time testing in controlled conditions as their theories and experiments concern human behavior. That said, declaring that economics shares quite a bit with psychology, anthropology, and sociology is no insult. All are fields steeped in the study of human behavior and refracted through the prism of culture and society.

Economics has the added element of attempting to also dip a toe in the waters of finance, thus the heavy reliance upon mathematical models. However, this does reveal one of the problems economics struggles with. All the fantastically complex math in the world won't help you if you are using a flawed behavioral model.
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Luke
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Re: Image Link Dump Thread.

Post by Luke »

o.pwuaioc wrote: Medicine must be theory too since there's a snake oil salesman somewhere in the world.
To a degree, yup.
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Luke
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Re: Image Link Dump Thread.

Post by Luke »

marurun wrote:Economics is definitely a social science as opposed to a "hard" science. I dislike that some folks like to draw a very deep line in the sand between biology, chemistry, and physics and everything else, but there is some limited validity to the distinction. Social sciences have a harder time testing in controlled conditions as their theories and experiments concern human behavior. That said, declaring that economics shares quite a bit with psychology, anthropology, and sociology is no insult. All are fields steeped in the study of human behavior and refracted through the prism of culture and society.

Economics has the added element of attempting to also dip a toe in the waters of finance, thus the heavy reliance upon mathematical models. However, this does reveal one of the problems economics struggles with. All the fantastically complex math in the world won't help you if you are using a flawed behavioral model.

^This.

I have to cook dinner, so I am appreciative of this post.

I have no images to dump, and I think we have a "science thread" so maybe move this discussion there.
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Re: Image Link Dump Thread.

Post by Soldier Blue »

Would anyone like some of my brain faggots????

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Re: Image Link Dump Thread.

Post by Hazerd »

This should be in a game...

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