(Seeking Advice) I want to play a cRPG. Where should I begin

[Jmustang1968]

It can be if you dont play it like an action game. I would pause and issue orders for special attacks and positioning all the time. Many of times I would have to take different approaches and strategies to kill tougher enemies.

[dsheinem]

you can zoom out and in on consoles, just not as far.

Yes, you can pull the camera out. But you can't play it in a view like Infinity Engine, like I had said you lose on the console, and you said I was wrong.

I vastly prefer that look, having played with both.

Good. Then it works for you on consoles. But like I said, I can't imagine playing the game w/o this feature now that I'm used to it.

the game isn't built around tactical combat that much anyway.

huh? The way I play it, it's pretty full of tactical combat. Maybe BECAUSE of the option to Baldur-ize the camera.

Ok, fair points all. As I recall, one of the criticisms of the game from the BG faithful was that the series was, in comparison, a bit too console-friendly in terms of how the combat mechanics were adjusted for a tighter view and more close-range combat. So while I can see playing the game zoomed out like BG, I don't really think that approach is the best way given the design decisions the devs made. Still, I agree it is nice to have the option on PC if you want it.

[noiseredux]

It can be if you dont play it like an action game. I would pause and issue orders for special attacks and positioning all the time. Many of times I would have to take different approaches and strategies to kill tougher enemies.

yeah this is totally me. I'm hitting spacebar all the time. I'm actually trying to get better at compiling new tactical rules for my characters now too that I can swap depending on situations.

Ok, fair points all. As I recall, one of the criticisms of the game from the BG faithful was that the series was, in comparison, a bit too console-friendly in terms of how the combat mechanics were adjusted for a tighter view and more close-range combat. So while I can see playing the game zoomed out like BG, I don't really think that approach is the best way given the design decisions the devs made. Still, I agree it is nice to have the option on PC if you want it.

Like I said, I tend to switch to BG-view only in battles - and usually only in bigger ones. But yes, it is an awesome option to have management-wise.

As far as action vs tactical, I think that there is at least a case to be made that stripping the option from the consoles does sort of force you into a mindsight of an Action RPG more than the PC version's options on how to approach it. Like, you sort of think of the series as 'not especially tactical' because you always played them on console?

BTW, for years you yourself urged me to play games on PC. You are at least partly responsible for the monster you see posting here now.

[isiolia]

I played DA:O/A pretty much the same as I played NWN/NWN2, tactical camera and all. The console version was tuned just for the more over the shoulder type play. In the Q&A on Kotaku the other day, they mentioned that doing the full tactical thing on PC was actually enabled by making the map twice:

The DAO levels were built twice. Once for Tac Cam and once for over the shoulder. This isn't a practical system. In DAI its donbe procedurally. We are looking to improve it more in future titles.

I think the console version wound up with fewer enemies and/or lower default difficulty to compensate for the lack of the tactical camera as well. My impression has been that Origins was built for PC first, around having the zoomed out modes, and cut down for consoles...where the later entries were more console first, half-hearted PC tweaks added on.

[dsheinem]

It can be if you dont play it like an action game. I would pause and issue orders for special attacks and positioning all the time. Many of times I would have to take different approaches and strategies to kill tougher enemies.

yeah this is totally me. I'm hitting spacebar all the time. I'm actually trying to get better at compiling new tactical rules for my characters now too that I can swap depending on situations.

This isn't what I mean. I also used the tactics wheel/"spacebar" feature all the time as as a mode of playing the game. I positioned my party strategically, etc. The "consolization" of combat in DA:O has to do with things like the amount of party members and enemies (fewer), the customization of characters was less robust (which figures into combat), the risk/reward structure of missions was quite different and informed the layout of the dungeons, similarly arranged party configurations would basically work throughout the game due to less diverse enemies, etc. These are all concessions to consoles...

The "consolized" version of the combat was even stronger in DAII, which was at least a part of the reason that game was as disliked as it was (I loved it, though )

edit: isiolia's points are well put, too.

[Jmustang1968]

The versions of the games were a bit different. Charactwrs were somewhat streamlined, but not in a necessarily bad way. They were still plenty customizable. A criticism of some of the other games was having too many repetitive options and/or too many obviously inferior options that there was less actual choice than what it seemed.

The party arrangement also followed a standard pattern. Tank/damage/heal. Healing wasnt as specialized as most could self heal and the spellcasters acted as both healers and mages.

The way I played on PC was very much like an IE game and felt that way as well.