Game collecting is not what it once was

[MrPopo]

And now you've learned that on a site like Racketboy despite clarifying yourself multiple times once certain members misconstrue your statement it is forever set in stone in their minds as such.

FTFY

No MrPopo, I am not going to hobble my gaming lexicon to be artificially retrograded to appease anyone. Nor will I sit idly by as I am accused of saying something I absolutely did not imply. I am simply not okay with being misrepresented. Internet vidja forum or not.

Now please excuse me while I go snort some Midol.

Live with it. Sometimes you have to conform to a community's expectations in order to not be ostracized.

It's not even a matter of being ostracized. You're just not speaking the same language we are. If someone from Caesar's came to the forum because we were a high hit when he searched for "video gaming" we'd probably have no idea what he was talking about when he posts; what he refers to as "video gaming" we call "video slot machines".

[pepharytheworm]

Some of the best shooters there are are console exclusive.

I would love to see this list. Truly.

EDIT: nm, I found it:

Gradius V

Are you trolling? If you made a list of the best 50 shmups you wouldn't also have console exclusives too?

Gradius Gaiden, Musha, Gradius V, Thunder Force IV, Einhander,  Super Aleste, Thunder Force V, Harmful Park, Gleylancer, R-Type Delta,  Blazing Lazers, Thunder Force III, Lords of Thunder........
None of these would be in your list?

[MrPopo]

While I'm down with the whole 1cc = beat thing, Blazing Lazers is amazing and leaving it off a list of awesome shmups is criminal.

[Erik_Twice]

Do you have evidence for this? Seems to be again you are focusing on the arcade where they were designed to make money by you dying. Who made up this 1cc rule?

It's actually the opposite, what was made up was continuing, not beating a game in one credit. The first game that allowed the player to continue was Moon Patrol (1982) and for a long time many arcade games didn't allow continues. The culture of arcade games was built around games that did not allow continues like The Tower of Druaga and both developers and fans have always looked down towards continuing.

The design of every single noteworthy shmup I can think of is simply not conductive to credit feeding. These games have been designed with the idea that each section will require the mastery of every previous section, if you die, continuing will just get you killed again because if you were not good enough to clear a section, you are obviously not good enough to clear the next.

It's also a fact that continues, like double play, were implemented, not out of a design choice but to appeal to arcades that did not want people to be able to play for more than five minutes without playing. Most of these arcades were Western, which is why American releases of games are often harder (Xexex), give you less lives (Battle Garegga) and allow continues when the original didn't (Gradius II). After a while, it became the ibdustry standard, but it's what it is: A way to make you spend more money. It's really obvious when a game is designed with continuing in mind and it tends to be bullshit

And, really, you are not going to beat many games in two credits unless you aim towards a 1CC in the first place. It's a red herring.


I also say this, not because I'm a hardcore player or part of some supposed elite, but because I don't think that credit feeding is conductive to a good, meaningful experience of the games. It's not some kind of oddity, either, I also think that grinding levels breaks Fire Emblem and that aut-aim ruins first person shooters for similar reasons.

I guess it could be considered elitist, just like making jokes at Call of Duty's expense is, but it's not rooted in an idea of the person playing being better, but in caring about the game itself.

[alienjesus]

Again, we are passionate and only want others to understand and possibly experience the joy from these genres (run n' gun, shmup) that we have.

The problem is that the way you shmup lovin' guys are coming across is doing nothing but making me feel less inclined to play these games. It's basically saying we should enjoy them in exactly the same way you guys do, which isn't fair at all. You're all coming across as elitist and judgemental.

I'm very much decided I won't be joining in any further shmups discussions on this forum after this debate, and I can tell you outright that that's likely to put quite a dampener on how much I enjoy the genre - I get a lot of fun out of coming on here to discuss the games I play.

[BogusMeatFactory]

Again, we are passionate and only want others to understand and possibly experience the joy from these genres (run n' gun, shmup) that we have.

The problem is that the way you shmup lovin' guys are coming across is doing nothing but making me feel less inclined to play these games. It's basically saying we should enjoy them in exactly the same way you guys do, which isn't fair at all. You're all coming across as elitist and judgemental.

I'm very much decided I won't be joining in any further shmups discussions on this forum after this debate, and I can tell you outright that that's likely to put quite a dampener on how much I enjoy the genre - I get a lot of fun out of coming on here to discuss the games I play.

I know! How dare you enthuse about something in a way dissimilar to others! Don't give up in your enjoyment man. If you want to enthuse, do it and critics be damned! I still think you are awesome even if you don't top the leaderboards and 1CC every game you play. Do not give up the fight and do not let anyone deter you from having fun. I mean... isn't that what games are all about? Having fun?

[Exhuminator]

Live with it. Sometimes you have to conform to a community's expectations in order to not be ostracized.

Nope. I do not believe such expectations are actually representative of this entire board's mentality, but rather a few key members' tunnel vision.

The bigger picture is that by and large we do not enjoy first or third person shooters

I have seen in the Games Beaten thread plenty of FPS (and TPS) genre games finished by many members here over the years. I do not buy the argument that "the average Racketboy member hates FPS/TPS". Nor do I believe that those genres as a whole are eschewed as some sort of communal hivemind behavior.

Wolfenstein 3D and Doom, and have no desire to give them fair acknowledgement.

At this point in gaming history, Wolfenstein 3D and DOOM are legit retro games (befitting this forum's primary theme) that redefined what the term "shooter" means in this day and age. Not acknowledging such classics is nothing more than willful ignorance.

I believe it is time to have a communal discussion about what "beating a game" actually means to the average person.

[Ack]

The bigger picture is that by and large we do not enjoy first or third person shooters in the vein of Wolfenstein 3D and Doom, and have no desire to give them fair acknowledgement.

:lolz: Oh it's funny because it's true. FPS is one genre I just have never gotten into and I don't know why.

For you, maybe. I consider FPS to be one of the best video game genres there is.

It's not even a matter of being ostracized. You're just not speaking the same language we are. If someone from Caesar's came to the forum because we were a high hit when he searched for "video gaming" we'd probably have no idea what he was talking about when he posts; what he refers to as "video gaming" we call "video slot machines".

Unless you're from Alabama, where it is called "electronic bingo."

[Exhuminator]

I believe it is time to have a communal discussion about what "beating a game" actually means to the average person.

Since we aren't really getting anywhere in this thread concerning these matters, I have created two polls on the main board addressing each issue. I hope this leads to some sort of resolution on the matter. Or we can just call each other names and stick our fingers in our ears and go LA LA LA LA. Either one works for me.

[mjmjr25]

Are you trolling? If you made a list of the best 50 shmups you wouldn't also have console exclusives too?

Yes, but not about this part.

You listed some decent games for sure, but top 10...no. Top 25, maybe Gradius V or Blazing Lazers, but I don't think anyone being fully honest would have more than 5-10% of console exclusives in any top 20-50-100 list.

Here's the top 25 as compiled by a group of genre fans from last year:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49262

Again, we are passionate and only want others to understand and possibly experience the joy from these genres (run n' gun, shmup) that we have.

The problem is that the way you shmup lovin' guys are coming across is doing nothing but making me feel less inclined to play these games. It's basically saying we should enjoy them in exactly the same way you guys do, which isn't fair at all. You're all coming across as elitist and judgemental.

I'm very much decided I won't be joining in any further shmups discussions on this forum after this debate, and I can tell you outright that that's likely to put quite a dampener on how much I enjoy the genre - I get a lot of fun out of coming on here to discuss the games I play.

I'm very sorry you feel this way - but, I also can't understand why you'd feel this way. It's very much, "i'm taking my ball and going home."

First, it's an opinion...about video games. Nothing to get upset about. No one who shares my view has been derogatory, name-calling, etc. Yet, you have your view and have no issues calling us elitist and judgemental.

Let's try to work this out...with bad analogies...

You got a soccer ball for your birthday. I come over and want to play soccer - you'd rather just throw it back and forth. So, we play some catch, and I say, "Brother - listen, if we get a net, and some chalk, i'll make a pitch and we can play a game." You say, "Naw, I just wanna play catch with it, i'm having fun, I enjoy this." I say, "Ok, yeah, this is fun, but seriously, there is a really cool thing to do with this, if we use our feet, and then there is some sort of indepth deeper enjoyment we can have with it, let me show you, it's awesome!." You, "naw, you're taking the fun away. I just want to catch it. I'll go somewhere else where people don't talk about kicking it."



Truly. I am sorry if we are turning people away from shooters, because they are such an amazing and deep genre and I wish I could articulate that better