Game collecting is not what it once was

[dunpeal2064]

Seems more that SHMUPs just more often don't integrate a middle ground themselves. If your standard for counting a Mario game as beaten were a 100% completion speedrun, you'd wind up knowing it inside and out too, appreciate it more, all that.

I think there is a misconception that 1cc'ing a shmup requires the highest caliber of play, or that it is "The perfect run", when in fact I would argue that a 1cc is indeed the middle ground. Its like beating Mario legit, no warp pipes, but far from a speedrun.

Again, to mention Dodonpachi, a shooter that helped develop the bullet hell and scoring sub genre that is in question. If your goal is to 1cc the first loop of the game, you are allotted 6 lives and 37 bombs to do so, and those bombs completely clear the screen and make you invincible. The first two stages are not too difficult, and you can essentially skip any difficult sections from there. Its arguable that a Dodonpachi 1cc is actually quite easy to accomplish with a bit of practice.

Compare this to a Dodonpachi 2-ALL, with a good score. This requires years, even decades of practice to accomplish. THIS is what I would compare to a high level speedrun.

I have a decent handful of 1ccs under my belt, and I have mastered none of these games. I simply understand them on a basic level, and practiced them a little bit.

I just can't see how playing a shmup with complete lack of consequence, and no possibility of death, could even be compared to a Mario 1 clear, when that game can actually end, you can fail. You had to learn, you had to accomplish something. Credit-feeding even the hardest shmup is easier than beating Mario 1, even with warp pipes.

[Exhuminator]

I think I'm only making myself look even more elitist and prickish with each post.

You dreadful snob!

Nah, I for one get what you are saying. Content tourism is not the same thing as content survivalism. If you play the game to the limit you can truly understand the developer's deeper intent. I got in a heated debate on a different forum when I was trying to explain how different playing Untold on Standard versus Expert really is. I could not get anyone to understand what the hell I was saying. Everyone thought I was being an elitist douche who thought those who did not play the game on Expert were weak. But I was only trying to explain how they were missing out on the "soul" of the game. Even though they saw the same pixels, they didn't feel the same thrill... the runner's high of surviving the legit challenge. So yes, I believe I for one understand what you mean about 1cc'ing shmups.

All the same I stand behind the "beating a game" concept being a subjective one that is best taken on a case by case basis.

[dunpeal2064]

I think I'm only making myself look even more elitist and prickish with each post.

You dreadful snob!

Both you and Dave gave me a good and well-needed laugh this morning.

All the same I stand behind the "beating a game" concept being a subjective one that is best taken on a case by case basis.

I agree completely! And, I really would never want to demean an accomplishment that someone feels proud of, which is why I wanted to explain myself thoroughly.

[Gunstar Green]

Credit feeding a shmup is like going on an amusement park ride.

It's what leads critics of the genre to say it's stupid and pointless because they don't understand you're not supposed to credit feed. That's why some games have tried to discourage it by not giving you infinite credits up front.

But it's alright, amusement park rides are fun, and if you still had fun while credit feeding through a game then mission accomplished. The game made you have fun. That's its primary goal.

The argument here though is should you consider the game beaten if you sleep walk through it? Personally I think it doesn't matter whether you want to dig in and wear the 1CC badge of honor or whether you want to mash your face on the controller for a half hour and look at the pretty colors. If you're personally satisfied with a game, throw it onto your "beaten" pile whether it's a filthy lie or not.

That's kind of what makes shmups great, whatever your skill level you can still have fun with it and if you really like the game you have the drive to continue enjoying the content and shoot for that 1CC.

[dunpeal2064]

If you're personally satisfied with a game, throw it onto your "beaten" pile whether it's a filthy lie or not.

That's kind of what makes shmups great, whatever your skill level you can still have fun with it and if you really like the game you have the drive to continue enjoying the content and shoot for that 1CC.

This is so true. The barrier to entry is nil, you have 2-3 buttons, and movement is simple. Yet, the skill ceiling is sky high, to the point where I'm not sure I could actually fully "beat" even the reserved amount of shmups on my shelf in my lifetime.

Thats right, brought that shit right back around :3

[Ack]

This is so true. The barrier to entry is nil, you have 2-3 buttons, and movement is simple. Yet, the skill ceiling is sky high, to the point where I'm not sure I could actually fully "beat" even the reserved amount of shmups on my shelf in my lifetime.

No, the real test of skill is making sure you can do this while 2 Unlimited blasts continuously in the background.

That's right, a BioMetal joke.

[dunpeal2064]

Biometal is amazing, possibly the best shmup on the SNES.

But yeah, fuck that shit, JP region only for me!

[isiolia]

I just can't see how playing a shmup with complete lack of consequence, and no possibility of death, could even be compared to a Mario 1 clear, when that game can actually end, you can fail. You had to learn, you had to accomplish something. Credit-feeding even the hardest shmup is easier than beating Mario 1, even with warp pipes.

I'm not really trying to equate the two. I was mentioning it more in the sense of how much you wind up learning about a game doing something like that. That it's common for most any game someone plays obsessively, or even relatively seriously. It's not like SHMUPs are the only thing that becomes a completely different animal when you set the bar higher.

I don't disagree that credit feeding presents little or no challenge, but I do think that jumping straight from that to 1CC is a much larger gap than most other genres present. The issue is less one of challenge than is is of appeal. Same as it tends to be in the inevitable casual vs. hardcore debates on every MMO forum ever. A more incremental challenge would probably stay appealing to more people, and serve to increase the fanbase.

[Ack]

Biometal is amazing, possibly the best shmup on the SNES.

You are the only person I have ever heard say that.

And I can't beat level 1.

It's ok, I'll just go back to Super Earth Defense Force. It understands me.

[MrPopo]

This is so true. The barrier to entry is nil, you have 2-3 buttons, and movement is simple. Yet, the skill ceiling is sky high, to the point where I'm not sure I could actually fully "beat" even the reserved amount of shmups on my shelf in my lifetime.

No, the real test of skill is making sure you can do this while 2 Unlimited blasts continuously in the background.

That's right, a BioMetal joke.

This would not be the last time we see 2 Unlimited in video games.