Game collecting is not what it once was

[dunpeal2064]

What I've discovered is that a large part of the community here doesn't want me to actually enjoy games unless I "beat" them their way.

I'm glad to be a large part of the community along with two other people.

[dsheinem]

The "perfect run" RPG without dying is not the same, because that is playing the game beyond how it was designed to be played.

Then why compare RPGs to 1cc shmups? It's not a proper analog. Why not compare RPGs to modern shooters like FPS and cover shooters that have checkpoints, savepoints, weapon upgrades, and restorative health items? Oh because that would be a much fairer more objective comparison, instead of an extreme outlier strawman argument.

You included "old arcade games" in your original lumping of genres along with "shooters". Later you added:

I beat Espgaluda, 19XX, UN Squadron, and Sexy Parodius without a sweat and hardly any quarters, and I'm by no means a shmup god. It damn sure didn't take me longer than an hour or two each.

So it seems clear that shmups are part of your claim here.

In any case, I don't think there's too much argument that most FPS games don't take 30-50+ hours to clear. No one is disagreeing that they are designed with some of the same save systems that RPGs use and that they are shorter.

[Ack]

What I've discovered is that a large part of the community here doesn't want me to actually enjoy games unless I "beat" them their way.

I'm glad to be a large part of the community along with two other people.

I find you indicative of our SHMUP sub community as a whole.

[dunpeal2064]

Yikes, that is terrifying, no wonder no one plays the genre.

[Exhuminator]

You included "old arcade games" in your original lumping of genres along with "shooters".

Because shooters are the only kind of old arcade games?

So it seems clear that shmups are part of your claim here.

Nah, that was after the shmup debacle started actually. I was talking about beating shmups relatively easily, but then I was informed you only actually beat a shmup on 1cc or GTFO.

In any case, I don't think there's too much argument that most FPS games don't take 30-50+ hours to clear. No one is disagreeing that they are designed with some of the same save systems that RPGs use and that they are shorter.

Finally a voice of reason! Thank you.

So please understand why when looking at my personal backlog of multitudes of RPGs and SRPGs the chance of me actually beating them all is kinda nil. It feels good to walk by them and think "someday" though.

[dsheinem]

So please understand why when looking at my personal backlog of multitudes of RPGs and SRPGs the chance of me actually beating them all is kinda nil. It feels good to walk by them and think "someday" though.

Out of curiousity, approx how many RPGs do you have unplayed on your shelf?

[alienjesus]

Moving on, I ultimately find these "but shmups must be 1CC'ed!" discussions rather silly because, simply put, the games aren't designed that way.

As far as Cave games go, Yes they are. They are absolutely designed to be 1cc'd. There is a ton of proof that they are, and no proof that they aren't.

Again, why would there be TWO completely different loops in Ketsui, that both change the gameplay entirely from the first loop, both of which are inaccessible if you continue. Thats 2/3 of the game that you will never, ever see if you insert a credit.

They "let" you continue, because they want money, and if you are willing to give them money, then cool. Maybe you just need to practice Stage 4, so you continue, but that is all with the goal of clearing the game on one credit. They design the entire game around scoring, and they take away your score when you continue. They lock content out of you continue. The games are all balanced very fairly for a single credit play.

The evidence that these games are designed to be played on one credit is monumental.

To me, the sheer fact they let you continue endlessly means that they aren't ONLY designed to be 1CC'd. They reward you and encourage you to 1CC, but they don't restrict you to it. If they did, then fine, they are designed to be 1CC'd.

You assume they only let you continue in order to make more money, but that doesn't explain the console only versions having the endless option too. I'm fairly sure that even if Cave target a hardcore 1CC demographic, they definitely understand they have a more casual market who wants to be able to enjoy the game without being a shmup god and that they're willing to accomodate them aswell.

Being designed with one goal in mind doesn't exclude other playstyles as legitimate ways to enjoy the game.

[Ack]

Yikes, that is terrifying, no wonder no one plays the genre.

Well, there's that, the price of entry(not literal price, I just don't know how you guys are playing a lot of the shmups you do), the inherent competitive nature of what you guys are doing for score, my comparative lack of skill that keeps me from wanting to participate in the competition, etc.

Also, your Tom Cruise avatar. Definitely that.

[TSTR]

Hell, the fighting game sub is way more ronery.

where have all the cowboy Kens gone?

[Exhuminator]

Out of curiousity, approx how many RPGs do you have unplayed on your shelf?

Approximately? A fucklebunch last time I checked.