Game collecting is not what it once was

[Exhuminator]

Do you honestly believe that those fiercely difficult bullet hell arcade shooters aren't designed to incessantly eat your quarters, but are instead designed as a test of player fortitude where one must finish them without ever continuing once? Is this what you truly think the developers intended?

[dunpeal2064]

Yes, or (like I said before) why would they lock you out of half the games content for continuing? You realize you actually CANT continue if you are fighting Doom in Ketsui right? The game won't even take your money. You can't even enter the loop (which is entirely different) if you continue.

The games are designed to be beaten on one credit. To get there, you need to play a lot, and if the game is arcade-only, that means dumping a ton of coin into it to get good.

[FerretGamer]

In Russia, game beat you with one credit.

[mjmjr25]

I would ask... how do you guys think a shmup should be played? Infinite credits?

I vote "play for fun", as foreign as a concept that might be in the hyper-competitive scene.

...but where is the fun? Sure, you might enjoy the sprite work, but if you just bomb / continue / bomb / continue your way through - I don't see the enjoyment in that at all.

Chaz was dead on with:
1CC shmup = get to end credits on a RPG
Master a shmup = open every item and path in an RPG

Most shooters after 1994-ish have so many hidden items, paths, extra loops, etc that can only be opened by collecting certain items, hitting certain scores, or killing bosses in specific ways. If you put 8 credits into DDP DFK 1.5 (or insert just about any shmup the past 20 years) and see the end credits AND think you "beat the game" you are kidding yourself. There are multiple pieces of the game you never saw / experienced.

This conversation started with Dave and discussing backlog. The point being made is that if you take Metal Slug 3 off of your shelf and continue 17 times to clear it that "no, you did not beat this game." You know nothing about it if it took you 17 credits. Yes, you played it, and you may have even had fun, but you did not beat the game.

Like Chaz said earlier - there are some games that you can simply turn it on and hit start and when you die, hit start again, and eventually you will see the credits by only hitting start. Does this really count as beating a game on your backlog? I hope not.

[Ack]

Chaz was dead on with:
1CC shmup = get to end credits on a RPG
Master a shmup = open every item and path in an RPG

So shmups still take less time then Disgaea then.

[Luke]

Your library analogy is apt, the buffet one is not.

Fair, but the buffet analogy is much funnier. Paying for the option to do something, is an odd concept to me. And I play Katy Perry songs on a trumpet so me using the word "odd" to describe something speaks volumes.

But I do know what you were getting at. It's not a "since I bought it I have to play it now" thing, more of a "I'll get around to it when I feel like it" thing.

[Opa Opa]

...but where is the fun? Sure, you might enjoy the sprite work, but if you just bomb / continue / bomb / continue your way through - I don't see the enjoyment in that at all.

So you wouldn't find any enjoyment in just a quick, no-pressure play through? No credit feeding, no continues... just seeing how far you get?

[mjmjr25]

...but where is the fun? Sure, you might enjoy the sprite work, but if you just bomb / continue / bomb / continue your way through - I don't see the enjoyment in that at all.

So you wouldn't find any enjoyment in just a quick, no-pressure play through? No credit feeding, no continues... just seeing how far you get?

No I definitely do enjoy that. However, doing that doesn't mean i've beaten the game.

I played Tatsujin for the first time last night. Got to stage 2. It was moderately enjoyable. I don't feel like i've played it as I haven't seen umpteen stages and I definitely haven't beat it.

More to the point - that experience does not make give me credibility to comment on the game at all, for the reasons above. I played it...but I didn't play it.

[BoneSnapDeez]

I would ask... how do you guys think a shmup should be played? Infinite credits?

I vote "play for fun", as foreign as a concept that might be in the hyper-competitive scene.

Agreed.

Sick of seeing these 1CC master race / "but you haven't really beaten the game" conversations pop up every couple of months.

The fact of the matter is that most gamers likely don't give a monkey's toss about the "competitive scene" and are playing for fun and recreation.

[Exhuminator]

there are some games that you can simply turn it on and hit start and when you die, hit start again, and eventually you will see the credits by only hitting start. Does this really count as beating a game on your backlog? I hope not.

One has to define what one's personal idea is of "beating a game".

1. For many people reaching the end credits without utilizing any external means beyond which the developers included (i.e. not using a GameShark or such), that equals "beating the game".

2. For some people reaching the end credits on the hardest difficulty without ever dying a single time only counts as "beating the game".

I go for #1 because I have way too many games I want to play to bother spending a hundred hours perfecting my skill in a single shooter. If I can finish that shooter with a couple credits and see the Thanks For Playing screen that's good enough for me. Just like if I can finish an RPG and see the The End screen without doing every single sidequest that's good enough for me as well.

Let's remember that Cave is only one developer of shmups and there are countless other games in the genre by other developers that are more forgiving. Cave is certainly an extreme case as a point to make because their games thrive on the competitive scene, that is what they are all about. So when I talk about beating an RPG, I mean like finishing Final Fantasy VIII for example, not trying to catch every Pokemon in the latest series release, or slay every beast in the latest Monster Hunter. Such endeavors can take just as many hours as perfecting a no hit run in Ibara or Mushihimesama.

And one more time when I was talking about shooters, I didn't mean shmups so much as I did FPS and cover shooters.