Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

[ZeroAX]

Why is everyone so concerned with context when the video series is specifically about tropes? It is about highlighting the things that recur in games, regardless of the various contexts of each occurrence.

Because she negative things about my favorite Kong who I feel is empowering to women, since she's by far the strongest character in the entire series.

no I'm not being serious about the first part of that sentence, but I am about the second. Seriously, you can complain about Peach, but Dixie Kong? Clearly you haven't played the game, and clearly someone who hasn't played a game can't judge it. Otherwise I can go to the library and start looking at covers.


still doesn't excuse the insults though, that's just messed up.

[dsheinem]

Clearly you haven't played the game, and clearly someone who hasn't played a game can't judge it. Otherwise I can go to the library and start looking at covers.

I don't have to read trashy romance novels to know that it is a genre where most of the cover art...and likely the content...features idealized notions of beauty/bodies.

[Jmustang1968]

Clearly you haven't played the game, and clearly someone who hasn't played a game can't judge it. Otherwise I can go to the library and start looking at covers.

I don't have to read trashy romance novels to know that it is a genre where most of the cover art...and likely the content...features idealized notions of beauty/bodies.

But she isnt reviewing games based on "Oh you shoot people in that game, or yu play sports in that one". She is citing specific examples, not just discussing genres.

False equivalency sir!!

[isiolia]

no I'm not being serious about the first part of that sentence, but I am about the second. Seriously, you can complain about Peach, but Dixie Kong? Clearly you haven't played the game, and clearly someone who hasn't played a game can't judge it. Otherwise I can go to the library and start looking at covers.

Wasn't the critique of Dixie one of character design though? The Ms. Male Character episode mentions her, offhand, and it's a fair observation.

[Erik_Twice]

There's a long line of rhetorical critics and scholars dating back to Aristotle that would disagree with this. Understanding tropes/commonplaces and their power AS SUCH is quite useful, both for those who employ them and critique them.

Arguing that narrative devices exist "AS SUCH" that is, as a platonic ideal, is very debatable but I don't think that's how Sarkeesian frames the subject. Sarkeesian frames it from the lenses of second wave feminism, that is, she upholds the sexism is not a mere act (1) but a consequence (or otherwise part of) of power structures (2) that are detrimental to women (3) and that to understand acts (or games) we have to go frame it from that power structure (4).

I don't have to read trashy romance novels to know that it is a genre where most of the cover art...and likely the content...features idealized notions of beauty/bodies.

You are making the same logical leaps she does which mostly boil down to judging a work of art not by what it is, but what you think other works are which would be debatable in and on itself.

I'm also saddened you have also decided that you don't have to read a book to judge it, or to claim it belongs to a "trashy" genre you are not well-versed on. To me it's anti-intellectual, unfair and damaging.

She is citing specific examples, not just discussing genres.

The issue is that she wants to discuss parts (Games) by using a whole (Tropes) as a reference but she cannot explain the whole without discussing its parts. It's circular.

[Ack]

no I'm not being serious about the first part of that sentence, but I am about the second. Seriously, you can complain about Peach, but Dixie Kong? Clearly you haven't played the game, and clearly someone who hasn't played a game can't judge it. Otherwise I can go to the library and start looking at covers.

Wasn't the critique of Dixie one of character design though? The Ms. Male Character episode mentions her, offhand, and it's a fair observation.

Yes and no. It critiques her for being represented as female by stereotypical tropes(the color pink specifically) but fails to recognize that every character was represented by stereotypical gender-associated tropes in the DKC series. The girls had hairstyles, a shawl, and a bikini, and in Dixie's case, a color, while the guys had a necktie, a ball cap, a suit, a bald spot, and a pair of swim trunks to signify their gender.

She also didn't go more into the color angle beyond mentioning the pink. Red is associated with heroes in Japanese culture, and it is used in both Donkey Kong's necktie and Diddy Kong's ball cap. It would have made an interesting comparison point for her videos, to discuss the differences in tropes in Japan versus US/Canadian or European game design.

[dsheinem]

Clearly you haven't played the game, and clearly someone who hasn't played a game can't judge it. Otherwise I can go to the library and start looking at covers.

I don't have to read trashy romance novels to know that it is a genre where most of the cover art...and likely the content...features idealized notions of beauty/bodies.

But she isnt reviewing games based on "Oh you shoot people in that game, or yu play sports in that one". She is citing specific examples, not just discussing genres.

False equivalency sir!!

She is citing examples of things that occur in games. She is looking at games and seeing a lot of recurring things.

Ok, I will try to explain this a bit better.

Yes, if you want to judge A BOOK you should read it. Same with A GAME.

If you want to point to TROPES IN GAMES then you don't need to do that. You can look for tropes and identify them, and then try to make some arguments about why those tropes occur so often in a particular medium.

Look:

Capture.JPG (180.01 KiB) Viewed 699 times

Do you notice recurring things? Can you make arguments about why those things might recur without reading all of the books?

[dsheinem]

It would have made an interesting comparison point for her videos, to discuss the differences in tropes in Japan versus US/Canadian or European game design.

Right. This is the kind of critique that stands up - she doesn't do much to account for cultural differences (across time and across cultures) in her videos (from what I've seen).

I'm more of a fan of the idea of her videos than the work itself, and I think there are fair criticisms to be made of how she talks about games...but getting mad at her for showing tropes when that's the whole point is inane.

[Ack]

Do you notice recurring things? Can you make arguments about why those things might recur without reading all of the books?

Yes, I notice a distinct lack of Fabio.

[dsheinem]

lol i just realized that some of those covers are fake/funny ones. Ah, Google images