Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

[Jmustang1968]

Even if EVERYTHING she has written is 100% wrong, that still doesn't excuse the level of bile she gets on her Twitter.

No, I don't much care for a lot of the stuff she says or the conclusions she arrives at, but she or others don't deserve the harassment.

Dont these people realize the shit they post helps to validate her arguments?

Though, I do believe for the vast majority of the offenders, they are empty threats for shock value and getting attention. Most of them are probably even normal people offline, but we have seen how internet anonymity can allow some people to act like jackasses. Problem is, for every 1000 or 10000 immature trolls getting a laugh, there exists 1 or 2 in there for whom these threats arent empty. And knowing the fear this can instill in their victim makes it not right.

[Niode]

. People are pissed off at her, not because she's a woman, not because she's a feminist but because the utter shite she vomits out of her mouth hole is 100% based in utter fiction. Her total disregard for academic process is what is holding a reasoned discourse from happening.

I don't see what's fictional about pointing out obvious tropes in games. I also don't see what's fictional about thinking that any media will both reflect and shape the world around it. Please, list for us her sins of non-factitude and her great academic transgressions.

She is simply unlikeable and self righteous.

I like her. Many do. Why do you think she's "self-righteous"?

See my previous post. She doesn't engage with her critics. She prefers to silence them, any person who has a dissenting opinion (regardless of how well reasoned or backed up with sources it is) is labelled a misogynist or 'part of the problem'. Her word is gospel, any critics are wrong (often by accounts of their gender, if you're male you simply can't understand the issue, according Anita-TheAllMighty).

Her most famous example is the Hitman 'tropes' video. I won't link it because I don't think she deserves any more money. Where she goes out of her way to kill two strippers and place them in a bin. All the while screaming about how sexist this is and it's encouraging that behaviour. Despite the game practically yelling at the player to stop doing this and this is not the correct way to play the game. Also conveniently ignoring the fact that you can do this to male NPCs as well. Wouldn't it be more sexist if you couldn't do this to just the female NPCs. Her arguments are lose/lose by design and conveniently forget the design process that obviously went into this.

She also plagiarises other videos, often simply pulling other users video footage and incorporating it into her own videos without recompense to the plagiarised party. Any attempt by infringing parties to get this removed are bathed in scorn as trying to silence her, despite her entire campaign boiling down to an attempt to have the medium censored. Hypocrisy.

Need me to continue?

[dsheinem]

She doesn't engage with her critics. She prefers to silence them, any person who has a dissenting opinion (regardless of how well reasoned or backed up with sources it is) is labelled a misogynist or 'part of the problem'. Her word is gospel, any critics are wrong (often by accounts of their gender, if you're male you simply can't understand the issue, according Anita-TheAllMighty).

Proof, please. Show me one of these "well reasoned" critics that are "backed up with sources" that she then labels in the manner you suggest. I've seen her call out trolls, clearly, but I've never seen anyone attempt to engage her in a spirit of collegial debate. I know she has done lectures with Q&A, has been interviewed various times, etc. It's not like she doesn't engage people at all.

Her most famous example is the Hitman 'tropes' video. I won't link it because I don't think she deserves any more money. Where she goes out of her way to kill two strippers and place them in a bin. All the while screaming about how sexist this is and it's encouraging that behaviour. Despite the game practically yelling at the player to stop doing this and this is not the correct way to play the game. Also conveniently ignoring the fact that you can do this to male NPCs as well. Wouldn't it be more sexist if you couldn't do this to just the female NPCs. Her arguments are lose/lose by design and conveniently forget the design process that obviously went into this.

Isn't her point with this example simply that "women appear yet again as strippers you can kill" (a form of "background decoration")? Yes, the game allows you to do other things and encourages or discourages various paths, but the point of the videos is to call attention to the recurring, typically limited representations of women in games (tropes). The Hitman example is yet another example of a specific sexist trope that occurs in a game that might not, on the whole, be especially sexist.

She also plagiarises other videos, often simply pulling other users video footage and incorporating it into her own videos without recompense to the plagiarised party. Any attempt by infringing parties to get this removed are bathed in scorn as trying to silence her

Links? What is she plagiarizing?

despite her entire campaign boiling down to an attempt to have the medium censored. Hypocrisy.

I am pretty sure she has no interest in censorship, but rather advocates for more introspection and awareness in the industry that leads to some substantive change.

Need me to continue?

You can start by supporting your first set of arguments, which you still haven't done.

-the utter shite she vomits out of her mouth hole is 100% based in utter fiction
-total disregard for academic process is what is holding a reasoned discourse from happening

Sorry, duder, you aren't making your point well at all.

[BoneSnapDeez]

@Niode

Everything you have written is incorrect.

"Silence the critics?"

If you mean block YouTube comments, I back her 100%. Why deal with that constant stream of filth? She gets enough of that on Twitter and elsewhere.

She labels misogynists as such, not those who simply have a "dissenting opinions."

The fact that you "don't have to" kill strippers in Hitman is no defense against the fact that you still can. If this kind of nonsense is included in a video game there's nothing wrong with critiquing it.

No plagiarism, sorry. All of her clips fall under fair use.

She does not and cannot "censor" anything. She is not a legislative or legal body. Critique is not censorship.

Oops dish beat me to it.

[dsheinem]

Oops dish beat me to it.

You wore it better, though.

[ZeroAX]

I'll be honest I did laugh at the one of the GTA threats

My opinion still stands, but seriously these guys can't they let it go?

[Ack]

The fact that you "don't have to" kill strippers in Hitman is no defense against the fact that you still can. If this kind of nonsense is included in a video game there's nothing wrong with critiquing it.

Admittedly, I can kill strippers in real life too. The universe operates on a set system of parameters, and this includes the ability to kill strippers. Should we critique the universe for allowing it?

[Niode]

Isn't her point with this example simply that "women appear yet again as strippers you can kill" (a form of "background decoration")? Yes, the game allows you to do other things and encourages or discourages various paths, but the point of the videos is to call attention to the recurring, typically limited representations of women in games (tropes). The Hitman example is yet another example of a specific sexist trope that occurs in a game that might not, on the whole, be especially sexist.

Well the level is designed around a strip club. What the fuck where they supposed to put in there? Fluffy sheep? Don't spout nonsense.

She uses this example as specifically encouraging and reinforcing this behaviour in the real world.

She also plagiarises other videos, often simply pulling other users video footage and incorporating it into her own videos without recompense to the plagiarised party. Any attempt by infringing parties to get this removed are bathed in scorn as trying to silence her

Links? What is she plagiarizing?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yaqWo7S8w8M/U ... ubex55.png

It's fair use to record video games as part of critique, as soon as you create that recording that is your copyrightable work. Somebody taking your work and then rehosting and profiting from it is shady at best, infringing at worst. She IS making money from this as the money that was generated from kickstarter was supposed to cover the cost of these materials. She isn't being honest with the way that she is generating this content so unless I see proof contrary she is making money from this. Not to mention using these videos as an academic work in lectures that she is being paid money to present.

She is censoring the people who complain about this under the guise of 'oppression' by disabling comments and refusing to acknowledge that she has plagiarised let's play videos for her footage. The most disgusting thing about this is that she initially pledged her kickstarter campaign as needing this money to buy these games. If she isn't playing these games and simply stealing other peoples videos without credit or recompense then what was all that money for?

You can start by supporting your first set of arguments, which you still haven't done.

-the utter shite she vomits out of her mouth hole is 100% based in utter fiction
-total disregard for academic process is what is holding a reasoned discourse from happening

The first point. Her videos are opinion pieces passed off as fact. No sources, no citations and to top it off no credit given for source material. Also, she doesn't even play video games. She is taking small out of context snippets of videos and passing these off as 'sources'. This is called confirmation bias. A reasoned argument needs to balanced on both sides. I have not seen this once from any of her 'critiques'.

This website says it much better than I can.

[dsheinem]

This website says it much better than I can.

I am sorry, but I kept reading looking for the point. When I found it, the payoff was nonsense:

Some note that academic and educational do not mean the same thing. This is an attempt to parse semantics. It is clear that McIntosh and Sarkeesian intend their work to be used at all levels of education. If a work is to be used academically, it must meet the rigorous standards of an academic setting. They have stated that their work is also research-oriented. Accordingly, the work must meet the bare minimum standards of academic and intellectual honesty as defined above.

This is just simply not true. "Semantics" here are everything as academic work is peer-reviewed and has responsibilities of citation. An episode of Mythbusters is educational and has none of those things. Nonetheless, both can be useful in a classroom. It is also useful in a film criticism class to have students read Roger Ebert as an educational exercise...but not as an academic source. Anyone who is trying to hold Sarkeesian to an academic standard and then using that standard to "expose" her faults is missing the boat entirely, sorry.

As for the stuff about how she makes her money and how that is or isn't inline with what she's said about money...sorry, but again I need more sources for this stuff.

[dsheinem]

Forgot this bit:

Her videos are opinion pieces passed off as fact. No sources, no citations

They are? I thought they were basically arguments that worked like this

Step 1: There's a thing that happens a lot in video games (claim)
Step 2: Here's a lot of video games where that thing happens (support)