Random Thoughts Thread

[MrPopo]

It's not going to be because he's not saying the pledge. It's going to be because he set a few fires because he lacks the discipline and self respect that the pledge instills into our youth.

[dsheinem]

It's not going to be because he's not saying the pledge. It's going to be because he set a few fires because he lacks the discipline and self respect that the pledge instills into our youth.

The only indoctrination around here is daily viewings of this before bedtime:

[TSTR]

It's not going to be because he's not saying the pledge. It's going to be because he set a few fires because he lacks the discipline and self respect that the pledge instills into our youth.

The only indoctrination around here is daily viewings of this before bedtime:

inb4 your son says to you "FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YA TELL ME"

[MrPopo]

It's not going to be because he's not saying the pledge. It's going to be because he set a few fires because he lacks the discipline and self respect that the pledge instills into our youth.

The only indoctrination around here is daily viewings of this before bedtime:

Killing in the Name would be a better choice; more irony.

[dsheinem]

True story:

A few weeks ago my son stayed with my parents for a weekend, who are quite religious (my dad was a minister and is now a hospice chaplain, and I have much respect for him, his faith, and his profession). On Sunday afternoon we met up with them to pick him up and take him home after they had all three gone to church in the morning. We stopped at a diner that we like that's half-way between our houses and ordered some food. When it arrived, my dad (as he often does) said "who wants to pray?". My mom said "David James (my son): Why don't you say the prayer for our food like you did the other day?"

He smiled. He then reached out his hands out to join hands with everyone else and closes his eyes. We all indulged him and did the same. He began:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag....of the United States of America...and to the republic...."

We all busted up laughing. Funniest thing he's done all month, thus far

[jp1]

I promise I'm trying to be non confrontational in my reply. I can remove if people feel I'm not. *shrug*

Ok, so due to Mike's thread and what has already been brought up there I have a question for you agnostics and/or atheists. What is the point of being active in the non-belief of something?

I like to think I am a rational person that thinks logically most of the time. Sometimes I fail at this, but we all fail at things sometimes. I too think that if someone is happy with their beliefs and not hurting others, then good for them. As an atheist myself, I tend to not discuss religion with others and leave them to it unless they bring it up first. I'd say most atheists and agnostics I know well are the same. Now maybe I might say something in relation to evolution in conversation, so I suppose that could be bringing up my "anti-faith" or something. But I wouldn't call myself active in it. By and large those that are of some faith or other specifically broadcast it to others which leads to discussions, such at Mike's thread. I may be wrong but I don't remember any threads specifically started for people to talk about atheism or evolution recently.

I can get along with religious people fine most of the time as most want to be good people and live a happy life like I do. If someone religious brings up something that I perceive as misguided and illogical or harmful to certain other groups of people, then I might try to convince them of my atheist point of view or otherwise point out what I feel is logical. I do not visit an atheist church as I drive by many theist churches as I drive around. I do not receive tax breaks as an atheist like churches do. I carry legal tender in my pocket and wallet daily that reads "In God We Trust" even though I personally do not. When I was a young child and we recited the pledge of allegiance every morning, I skipped over "one nation under God" from some point in second grade on once I had a better understanding as opposed to just miming as I was told.

So I personally don't go out of my way to be "active in the non-belief of something", but those of faith often try to be active with me in some form on a daily basis, even if simply by osmosis.

Take for instance the tooth fairy. There may be an entire forum somewhere dedicated to believers of the tooth fairy. I don't believe in the tooth fairy and as such, I do not care how unfounded or incredible I believe their thought process is. If they are happy to believe the tooth fairy exists, I am happy to leave it at that. Furthermore, why is it that so many of you get offensive or defensive when people question your beliefs, or lack thereof, but feel so completely free to jump in on those who do not share them?

Unless there's some underground movement I'm unaware of, belief in the Tooth Fairy has no major repercussions on people's livelihood beyond children possibly receiving small amounts of money or trinkets in exchange for lost teeth. The fact that discrimination and other horrible things have, and continue to be done in the name of various religions of the world does tend to put atheists on the boisterous side when engaged in discussion though.

Not confrontational at all Hobie, I appreciate the effort to respond with no hostile intent. Your picking apart of the Tooth fairy analogy is fair, it is a simple analogy used to make a point, but it is flawed. Anything could be placed in it's spot and the point could be more or less valid in my opinion.

I understand that at times, maybe all the time, atheists come across Christians who try to shame them, or treat them with disrespect because of their beliefs. The problem, as I see it, is bringing the guarded attitude somewhere like this were it seems (to me at least) that those of faith have gone out of their way to be accepting and supportive. The history of Christianity is ugly, hell the history of America, or Mankind for that matter is ugly, but we are here in the present with each other now, and this is what we have to go on.

I know Atheists who are assholes, I know Christians who are assholes. Here I must reserve judgment until I have the proper information to make my own personal call. For instance, because I am Christian, you could assume I have problems with gay marriage, or a number of other topics that have been (apparently) discussed here. However, this is not true. I am an accepting person, the only thing I'm not tolerate of is people being intolerant.

I'm having a hard time finding a way to continue the discussion with you specifically, because frankly you weren't on my mind at all when making the post. I've never seen you do the things I was speaking about. I could list off the many, many members who it does not apply to, or I could list the few I believe it does (and cause an argument), I choose to simply state my piece and hope that those who matter know the difference.

Although my post may have seemed confrontational as well, I really didn't want it to be. I was encouraging this discussion, because I want to understand the motivation. I don't want Mike to be censored, I want him and others to be able to be themselves, but I also want Dave to feel free to speak his mind. My hope would be that we could all find a way to do it with tolerance and respect. Much as you have done with your response, Dave has done with his efforts to communicate about it, and I hope others can understand I am trying to do.

I'd no sooner see Dave shunned from a thread and silenced than anyone else have to hold their tongue about their beliefs, as long as they are coming from a place of healthy and respectful communication.

I might hate SHMUPS, so I don't partake in a SHMUPS thread. I do like to know that I would be welcome to ask questions should my curiosities spike in that particular topic though. So long as I wasn't jumping in telling people they were stupid for enjoying them in the first place.

I have a feeling that once again I will have pissed off the people I didn't intend to offend, and been completely ignored at best, or met with hostility at worst, by those I was hoping to speak to.

I'll say it again, because I meant it before...You're an awesome guy in my opinion Hobie, I wouldn't change a thing about you, at least so far as I've come to know you on these boards.

[TSTR]

talking bout Jesus is one thing, talking bout SHMUPS is fightin words

[jp1]

talking bout Jesus is one thing, talking bout SHMUPS is fightin words

Better choice of words, "I might suck at SHMUPS."

[Hobie-wan]

Not confrontational at all Hobie, I appreciate the effort to respond with no hostile intent. Your picking apart of the Tooth fairy analogy is fair, it is a simple analogy used to make a point, but it is flawed. Anything could be placed in it's spot and the point could be more or less valid in my opinion.

Yeah, I knew we get along fine, but I just couldn't help myself in responding as "the other side" as I figured I had a reasonable chance of not coming across as an asshole.

Switching out the Tooth Fairy wouldn't really change my argument either. If someone believes something I do not and it is harmless, then I'm far less concerned about its negative effect. To change for another more dire belief that's not religiously related, if someone believes they're impervious to fire and I hear them discussing testing the idea by putting themselves or another into a bonfire, you bet I'm going to try to convince them otherwise before someone comes to harm.

[TSTR]

Obviously you haven't heard of the underground blood cults that worship the Tooth Fairy.