Bill Cosby

[dsheinem]

So, given the interest in 80s culture here, I am sure most of you are following the recently revived saga surrounding Bill Cosby and serial drugging/rape accusations.

I feel like I am in the minority in my group of friends in that I am not really inclined to believe the charges. It seems that, increasingly, one can't hold this position without being labeled some kind of enabler or victim-blamer...but I really don't think that my own viewpoint has anything to do with some kind of great love for Cosby, cognitive dissonance, misunderstanding of the gender/power dynamics in instances of sexual assault, celebrity culture, etc. I mean, I teach courses where people are educated about what these things are and consider myself a feminist (in that I advocate for equality across genders and am critical of hegemonies)...but I feel a bit ostracized on this topic.

I do think Cosby is getting and taking horrible advice about how to manage all of this in terms of his public response/interviews/etc....but some of that might be his wanting to adhere to previous settlement terms (thus the "I won't speak/can't speak on this" kind of responses). Who knows?

In any case - I don't know that anyone can know what happened, and so I am hesitatnt to assign praise/blame to any party involved in this case. But so many ARE. Am I missing something? I certainly think we have a media climate that is just as happy to create celebrity without cause as it is to tear it down celebrity without evidence and that both happen with a lot of bandwagoning and opportunism...and I feel like there's a lot of that going on in this case...

[prfsnl_gmr]

Certainly, the charges would not pass muster in a court of law (and most are barred by various statutes of limitations at this point). The number and diversity of alleged victims, however, and the consistent modus operandi indicate, to me at least, that there is probably some element of truth to the charges.

I also agree that he is not responding well to the charges in the court of public opinion, and although I never cared much for his stand up routines or his sitcoms, I certainly will never view him the same way again.

EDIT: Also, when I clicked on the link for this thread, I was confident I was going to see a jvalentime98 post. You disappoint me with your considered, thoughtful writing, DSH...

[dsheinem]

The number and diversity of alleged victims, however, and the consistent modus operandi indicate, to me at least, that there is probably some element of truth to the charges.

You don't think there's a reasonable possibility that there are just a lot of "copycat" stories going on? Certainly there's precedent for that in cases like this, as is there precedent of them not being copycats...

And why do I feel like asking that question make me a horrible person?

[Exhuminator]

Bill Cosby has only ever done one thing wrong in his life. He filed cease & desist charges against the creators of House Of Cosby, the internet TV show. Other than that, dude's golden. I don't believe this crap people are saying.

[flojocabron]

This saddens me too. No one is perfect. But trying to hide your past indiscretions makes this worse.

He was hoping to have some sort on tenure in his age. He was hoping his fame would hold up and noone would question him. But he was wrong.

In this day and age it is nearly impossible to hide those skeletons in your closet. It may take years, but it all comes out to bite you in the @ss.

How many 'kind old people' do you see walking down the street? A whole bunch. You dont know anything about their past. For all we know he/ she may have been a really bad person who did _________ in the past.

Add your own bad thing in the blank there.

There are too many stories and articles of old people finally getting caught. Bill cosby is now a popular footnote in those lists.

Bill cosby falls under an age bracket/generation where you keep quiet about certain things. Only in todays society can one truly be open about these things, painful as it may be.

But for every one person that does talk, how many more victims stay quiet?

I know rape culture will be brought up with this thread, and how it still plagues humanity. Lets not try to victimize mr. Cosby too much. He knew what he was doing when he zipped down his pants.

[prfsnl_gmr]

You don't think there's a reasonable possibility that there are just a lot of "copycat" stories going on? Certainly there's precedent for that in cases like this, as is there precedent of them not being copycats...

I think some of them probably are. There are just too many of them, IMO, for them to all be "copycat" stories.

And why do I feel like asking that question make me a horrible person?

It shouldn't, and don't let people shame you for exercising critical thinking skills. Certainly, many more people should have exercised them before the Duke Lacrosse fiasco.

[dsheinem]

He knew what he was doing when he zipped down his pants.

What saddens me is that there's a widespread belief that he zipped down his pants at all...let alone the potential context in which he may have done so.

[jp1]

It's a shame that it is even necessary, but the burden of proof needs to be on the accusers. It has gotten to a point where an accusation is the same as a guilty verdict in the eyes of a great deal of the general public, and that is sickening. Rape is also sickening. Either way you have a bad situation.

I think the real question is...

Is it worse to condemn an innocent man, or let a guilty man go free? That is a damned hard question to answer.

You hate to question the accusations of alleged victims, but without substantiating anything you could be ruining a good mans life and tarnishing his legacy. It's a tragedy we live in a world like that.

In the end it really doesn't matter what debate surrounds it, the damage is already done, justly or unjustly. The same situation with Michael Jackson, until he died. Nobody will ever know the truth but the accused and the accuser(s).

[prfsnl_gmr]

Is it worse to condemn an innocent man, or let a guilty man go free? That is a damned hard question to answer.

Not really. Noted English jurist William Blackstone answered it nearly 250 years ago:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent should suffer."

EDIT: God also answered the question in Genesis 18:23-32...So...uh...this principle has been around for while...

[dsheinem]

In the end it really doesn't matter what debate surrounds it, the damage is already done, justly or unjustly. The same situation with Michael Jackson, until he died. Nobody will ever know the truth but the accused and the accuser(s).

But, see, with Jackson there was a lot of pretty well substantiated "strange" behavior and attitudes/relationships with children that at the very least made the accusations more believable. That's the kind of thing I feel like I am missing with Cosby. What, if anything, do we know about any of this? Do we know if Cosby was, for example, someone who was regularly sleeping around/cheating on his wife in consensual relationships? Do we know that he was in any kind of relationship at all with any of the women accusing him? I've not even heard him say stuff like "yes, we were in a relationship but it was consensual" or the like.

On the other hand Cosby does have a history of advocating for equality, fairness, and other issues that are now labeled as "Social Justice issues" all the time. So yeah - I guess there's some dissonance as regards his public character there that is a component of the reaction I have. Is there any/other evidence that he's kind of a "shady" or "strange" person in private?