Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

[Opa Opa]

^Really she's just built a career out of this. And I think that was her real intention; has she done anything progressive? Seriously. Have any developers taken her criticisms into account when making creative decisions?

I don't care for her approach and methods much, but comments like this tend to serve to validate some of what she is saying...

I originally typed "parasite" but I figured I could get someone to sympathize with her with a tiny dash of word-manipulation.

[pepharytheworm]

Whatever happened to just enjoying video games? Does everything in this life need to be cross analyzed? Isn't there other problems in the world that should be addressed with research other than whether or not a female is or is not treated poorly in video games? I'm sorry, I'm just done with all this retardedness as of late, when I was a kid I played video games cause I enjoyed the world in which they created for me to leave reality for awhile. To this day I still play games like that. All this crap is leaving a sour taste in my mouth.

It's nice the problem doesn't effect you, but others do feel effected by it. Why can't they also use video games to escape like you do? Have a world created for them too? Women are half of the same species yet not treated as such. I find that is a real problem that needs addressing.

[jfrost]

^Really she's just built a career out of this. And I think that was her real intention; has she done anything progressive? Seriously. Have any developers taken her criticisms into account when making creative decisions?

Glad you asked, because the answer is yes.

Even people who have been criticized in her work — including Anthony Burch, Joss Whedon and Tim Schafer — have listened and encouraged their followers to take note, while Saints Row creative Director Steve Jaros has said, "I actually think [Tropes vs. Women creator Anita Sarkeesian's] right in this case" when a video was critical of an aspect of the game.

Source: http://www.polygon.com/features/2014/10 ... sarkeesian

[jfrost]

Copious amounts of male tears in this thread: "Stop subjecting video games to cultural criticism, let's go to space, goddammit!"

[Kidpanda]

Whatever happened to just enjoying video games? Does everything in this life need to be cross analyzed? Isn't there other problems in the world that should be addressed with research other than whether or not a female is or is not treated poorly in video games? I'm sorry, I'm just done with all this retardedness as of late, when I was a kid I played video games cause I enjoyed the world in which they created for me to leave reality for awhile. To this day I still play games like that. All this crap is leaving a sour taste in my mouth.

It's nice the problem doesn't effect you, but others do feel effected by it. Why can't they also use video games to escape like you do? Have a world created for them too? Women are half of the same species yet not treated as such. I find that is a real problem that needs addressing.

My wife plays the same games I do and we have talked about games many a time. She pointed out that games directed at women are garbage and she is actually insulted by them. She flat out said she enjoys the games I play for the same reason, she escapes and becomes the character in the game herself. Part of it is we don't really play ultra violent games such as Manhunt, or really any FPS games as to her and I it just seems too realistic. Puzzle games, shooties and platformers dominate our game playing tendencies. I'm not saying that game companies don't cater to the bro gaming crowd as they frankly do, but to attack Super Mario as a poor trope in a video game she finds more offensive than helpful. And with this post I am walking away from this thread.

[jfrost]

Whatever happened to just enjoying video games? Does everything in this life need to be cross analyzed? Isn't there other problems in the world that should be addressed with research other than whether or not a female is or is not treated poorly in video games? I'm sorry, I'm just done with all this retardedness as of late, when I was a kid I played video games cause I enjoyed the world in which they created for me to leave reality for awhile. To this day I still play games like that. All this crap is leaving a sour taste in my mouth.

Imagine if the world did not revolve around you or what you find pleasant or not.

Oh, wait. It doesn't.

[BoneSnapDeez]

Have any developers taken her criticisms into account when making creative decisions?

EA. Mirror's Edge 2.

[Kidpanda]

Eh, opinions are opinions. No one is right or wrong. You guys take care in your lives. Think I'm done here.

[ZeroAX]

Wasted opportunity, she should have gone to the Dailsy Show instead it's much funnier.

[Key-Glyph]

My wife plays the same games I do and we have talked about games many a time. She pointed out that games directed at women are garbage and she is actually insulted by them.

This is exactly why the call is for more depth, variation, and complexity in game experiences/gameplay. The problems Sarkeesian is pointing out, and the issue that "girl games" are frequently lacking in challenge or interest, are two sides of the same coin. It's the same mindset manifesting in opposite directions.

You and your wife are onto one of the great debates in the realm of children's toys -- the discussion over whether or not the concept of "girl stuff" is primarily positive or negative.

On one side, the supporters of toys/games/entertainment that specifically bill themselves as "girls only" (think anything in pink boxes, "LEGO Friends," etc.) believe that cordoning off entertainment with the cootie factor frees girls to pursue their play in a safe space and on their own terms, without fear that boys and the larger world will criticize their interests as stupid, trivial, weak, or lame.

On the other side, critics of this concept argue that the very act of claiming "the stuff in pink is for girls" implicitly reinforces the belief that all toys and interests outside of the cootie sphere must logically not be for girls, and that there is no overlap. Girl stuff therefore often takes the shape of, or is assumed to be, the dumbed-down/prettied-up version of a very selective portion of boy stuff.

Both sides have a legitimate argument, and I know a lot of people of either opinion. But whether or not you believe there is an essential, immutable masculinity in boys and likewise for femininity in girls, it can be agreed that companies and audiences splitting all games down that line and seeing everything through that strict binary is silly, right? It's unnecessarily stifling a lot of creativity and nuance in both creators and players -- and all seemingly because a bunch of folks can't tolerate the thought of having their mashed potatoes touch the green beans on their plate or whatever.

Having more variety in game titles, and within the individual games themselves, is not a bad thing. And that is exactly what Sarkeesian is promoting. She wants to fix what's bothering your wife by encouraging the market to produce bigger numbers of high-quality, more broadly-appealing and/or diverse stuff.