Wii-U thoughts so far

[ZeroAX]

Actually if you remember the xbox didn't get most 3rd party games either. Simply put when you have a platform that DOMINATES the market, why bother developing for the other 2 if the profit is not worth the risk?

[Reprise]

Lololol are you seriously suggesting that the Gamecube controller was that different from the competitors that it scared third-party developers away? I mean, seriously? I mean, we're talking about the controller (one of the best controllers, imo) that followed the thing that was the N64 controller right?

[Sarge]

The mini-disc argument does have some pull. I don't know that it affected things that much, though. I think it's more that, as ZeroAX states, the PS2 was absolutely dominating the market, and third-party games on the 'cube had to compete directly against Nintendo's first-party fare, something devs have always griped about.

I think one could make legitimate arguments that the GC was the most powerful system of that generation. Perhaps a lower clock speed than the XBOX, but a more efficient architecture, and it had probably the best-looking game of that generation in Metroid Prime. They were pretty close, at any rate, and both, when used properly, spanked the PS2. We didn't see that very often with multi-platform games, though, because of the dominance the PS2 showed.

[isiolia]

It's been posted before, but, A Dolphin's Tale is a nice, long article about the Gamecube. Based on quotes there, it just seems more that Nintendo doesn't really do as well with third party relations. Similar to the Secret Developers article on Eurogamer regarding the Wii U.

[Ziggy]

Third problem (no source for this, my opinion, but you can google it if you want): while nand flash memory is faster than an HD, HD just provides a much better Gb/€ ratio. And I'm sorry you say you don't need it, I respect that, just I respect people who don't need facebook or a smartphone, but you can NOT deny that most people DO care about how much storage their console has since it limits how many games they can download and store. I changed my PS3's 80Gb hard drive into a 500Gb all the way back in 2009 (inside the first year that I owned it).

Same for my 3DS which has a 32Gb card (though of course having many games in the system's memory is much more important for a handheld than a home console). And yeah I know you can connect a USB HD, but the USB presents a bottleneck and I am quite curious if the games (full HD games, not VC or eshop games) being run from the HD don't suffer in performance because of that.

Not to be a dick or grammar nazi, but HDD is the correct abbreviation for hard drive (Hard Disk Drive). HD is the abbreviation for high definition.

Do most people care about how much storage their console has? Again, not trying to be a dick, I'm legitimately asking. I, for one, don't. I wonder how many U owners do. I bought the WW bundle when it came out (what was that - two summers ago?) and I don't need more space yet, with no plans to add a HDD anytime soon. Hell, I had my 40GB PS3 for some years before I upgraded. The 8GB Basic Wii U was bullshit, I totally agree with that. But 32GB might be good for most people. If most people don't care and/or don't need more space for a while after purchasing the console, then you can't blame Nintendo at all.

There must have been other reasons, like getting the size that they wanted, power consumption, fans, etc, but Nintendo's official reason for not including a HDD was to keep cost down for the people that DON'T need one. And I thank them for that. Their reasoning was the price of HDDs fluctuate (and ultimately come down in price over time) so it would be cheaper for the end user to get a HDD if and when they need one, instead of being forced to buy one. I'm glad the console didn't cost me an extra $100 for something that I don't need.

About the bottleneck... Yes, USB 2.0 is slower than SATA. But how fast can the console read U optical discs? Probably slower than USB 2.0 specs. That's why it shouldn't matter at all. edit: Wiki says "The console's read-only optical disc drive reads discs at 5x CAV, for a maximum read speed of 22.5 MB/s." By comparison, USB 2.0 is 480Mbps (over twice as fast).

Also, I should point out, you don't need to use a HDD. You could plug in a USB stick or card reader into the USB ports on the U and use that as external storage. Although Nintendo doesn't recommend using external flash memory instead of a HDD, it would be a lot easier. It would still have the same USB bottleneck, but at least it would be smaller (don't need to store an external HDD anywhere) and not require a separate power adapter.

I lost my train of thought...

[Tanooki]

Lololol are you seriously suggesting that the Gamecube controller was that different from the competitors that it scared third-party developers away? I mean, seriously? I mean, we're talking about the controller (one of the best controllers, imo) that followed the thing that was the N64 controller right?

It's not a suggestion, it's a fact. I worked for Midway Home Entertainment throughout 2001 and 2002, my brother then and still today works in the industry. A big reason you did not see games that were ported between the PS2 and XB showing up on the Gamecube rested entirely on the controller lacking an added top button and the crappy small disc size being an even larger of the two as a deal breaker. My last game at Midway was Defender. Ever play that one? The default setup on it they left on there and it's sloppy, the game is too hard to play on there because they left out the trigger button needed to allow strafing around targets to avoid being shot while attacking. It pissed me off royally so I went behind our area's back kind of (it was after the cut off) and wrote an entire control scheme and sent it to the developer myself, it's a hybridized turok+starfox 64 control where you use a comfy easy button combo that allows strafing. The game is fully playable, sadly you have to select it as control C or D(mirrored) to use it. Game makers back then would leave out vital functions compromising gameplay or they'd just not release the game due to that stupid controller and all they needed was another top 'Z' button which they finally did on Wii with the pro controller and then WiiU and New 3DS.


Zero is right, PS2 dominated the hell out of things. But while anyone had a brain in making games knew if you could port a game easy to the other guys you could get thousands or millions more units sold with little expense. THe problem was with the GC lacking that button and a full size disc, the added costs involved in recoding the game both for the button and the lack of space (breaking it up) took the GC often off the table for releases. It was tolerated for awhile, but then when sequels would pop up, the GC got skipped and the XB still got the game. Porting was stupid easy back on those 3 systems when you started development on the PS2 as most the code and assets could be converted which is why unless you had a game specific title, nothing really ever stood out on ports so the PS2 version appeared best since it was made for it. A PS2 game would be in development for a lot longer, only once it was in a later alpha/early beta they'd lift the code to the GC and XB. For awhile you'd still have all the SONY naming/legal terms, button icons and wording in place until it was later changed for the hardware.

I know what I'm saying is just words on a board, but I started out on NHL Hitz 2002 PS2 and XB there, followed by over a year on Legion PS2, then into XB Slugfest, and lastly credited was Defender. I did have a hand with some PAL stuff with overtime on Gauntlet Dark Legacy on GC and also a little with Dr Muto too so I had experience testing and working on system standards, documentation, a little gameplay tweaking, and back-up leading of a couple teams in my short time there. Beyond that period though any knowledge I tend to share around here is second hand inside stuff from my brother who is a game producer (current project is Rollercoaster Tycoon out in 2015.)

Edit: In all fairness, I shouldn't say the only reason up above. There was also the third reason, the left over stigma that Nintendo was the kiddie box, so certain developers just acted like children and ignored them like Rockstar for instance even if the hardware was capable.

[Reprise]

Speaking of the GameCube, by the way, (and I know I'm kind of avoiding the current Nintendo bashing topic and I'd like to say there are many good points made, but it just isn't for me, sorry) but am I seriously alone in it actually being my favourite console from that generation (excluding the Dreamcast)? And I say that as someone who owns both a PS2 and a Gamecube and used to own a Xbox.

It seems like people always claim that there was no third party support, yet my favourite third party games from that generation (TimeSplitter 2 and 3, Tony Hawks 2 and 3, XIII, Soul Calibur 2, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time etc) were all on the console (and in most cases, were superior to the PS2 version). Then there's plenty of awesome exclusives (albeit many "timed") from third parties/second parties, such as Eternal Darkness, Resident Evil REmake, Zero and 4, Super Monkey Ball, Killer 7, Viewtiful Joe, Star Wars Rogue Leader, Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes, Tales of Symphonia etc. And I haven't even begun to mention the high quality titles from Nintendo themselves.

And then onto the hardware itself, well it may be missing a button apparently, but I still love the controller to this day. It's so damn comfy and just feels great. the only downfalls for me are the C-stick and the D-pad, but neither are huge issues for me (or the fact the sticks don't click, which is common these days). The console is very well built and looks great.

[casterofdreams]

You are not alone Reprise.

I loved the gamecube, and still do but I own nothing from that time anymore. Still I've got memories of playing Mario Kart co-op, hundreds of hours of PSO series, playing with some Chao in Sonic Adventure 2 with the GBA connectivity, loving the CRAP out of Tales of Symphonia (spelling?), Resident Evil Remake, Zero, and 4. Also I was playing gems like Killer7, and the Lost Kingdom(s?), and the standard first party stuff like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Metroid Prime 1 & 2.

I can go on and on...

I also remember the Panasonic Q. At first I thought it was a myth when I was a teen. I've seen it in person for the first time in my early 20s a couple of years ago.

[pepharytheworm]

Gamecube was my favorite of the time including the Dreamcast. My taste have slightly changed since then and if not for my love of RPGs, Fighters and Shmups I would still say Gamecube but now it's kinda a tie between the PS2 and NGC with Dreamcast in a close second and Xbox last. But even Xbox has grown on me with it's superior ports and PC games that weren't on other consoles. I dislike the PS2 as a console but love a lot of the games. Gamecube as a system I love; look, feel, sound, controller, interface and graphics. I just wish it had more games in the genres I love. The RPGs, fighters and the Shmups it does have are all top notch though.

[ZeroAX]

Speaking of the GameCube, by the way, (and I know I'm kind of avoiding the current Nintendo bashing topic and I'd like to say there are many good points made, but it just isn't for me, sorry) but am I seriously alone in it actually being my favourite console from that generation (excluding the Dreamcast)? And I say that as someone who owns both a PS2 and a Gamecube and used to own a Xbox.

It seems like people always claim that there was no third party support, yet my favourite third party games from that generation (TimeSplitter 2 and 3, Tony Hawks 2 and 3, XIII, Soul Calibur 2, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time etc) were all on the console (and in most cases, were superior to the PS2 version). Then there's plenty of awesome exclusives (albeit many "timed") from third parties/second parties, such as Eternal Darkness, Resident Evil REmake, Zero and 4, Super Monkey Ball, Killer 7, Viewtiful Joe, Star Wars Rogue Leader, Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes, Tales of Symphonia etc. And I haven't even begun to mention the high quality titles from Nintendo themselves.

And then onto the hardware itself, well it may be missing a button apparently, but I still love the controller to this day. It's so damn comfy and just feels great. the only downfalls for me are the C-stick and the D-pad, but neither are huge issues for me (or the fact the sticks don't click, which is common these days). The console is very well built and looks great.

Number of games I've beaten on the gamecube: 15+, and I've owned around 20-25
Number of games I've beaten on the PS2: .......1, and I've owned like 10+

It's a shame I sold off most of my gamecube collection though . some titles I really miss.

It was a wonderful console and I don't mind that the wii u is just another gamecube. it still has 10+ games I actually WANT instead of 100 games I can play on PC anyway. I just wish it had dropped in price already, it's been out for 2 years