Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

[dsheinem]

As someone who has played some of those games, I would say it looks like she's done her work just fine. I sometimes watch longplays online instead of playing games myself. I may not get all the mechanics, but I can pick up plot and themes just as well as the alternative. I suspect she's spending lots of time doing research, and just isn't a gamer herself. Her lack of inclination to play games, however, doesn't mean she's unable to comment on thematic content within games. That's kinda like suggesting maybe some researcher should commit suicide before they talk like they know something about it.

Pushing the debate over the cliff much?

I'm sorry but you can't judge an artform outside of its full context. You can't judge a movie just by reading its script, you can't judge a comic by just looking at the pictures without reading the text (and vise versa) and you sure as hell can't judge a video game without playing it.

Sure you can.

I'm pretty comfortable saying "Holy smokes, Mortal Kombat's violence is graphic!" or "Wow, Saints Row has a lot of stereotypes" or "Sheesh, the boobs in DOA Beach Volleyball are ridiculously ginormous!" or "OMG, Bayonetta oozes sexuality" without playing the games.

[pepharytheworm]

Pushing the debate over the cliff much?

I'm sorry but you can't judge an artform outside of its full context. You can't judge a movie just by reading its script, you can't judge a comic by just looking at the pictures without reading the text (and vise versa) and you sure as hell can't judge a video game without playing it.

But she isn't judging any game in its entirety. Using your analogy I could judge what I read in a script. Judging the script isn't judging the entire movie. Same as judging tropes isn't judging the entire game. Now if someone judged the acting in a movie but has only read some of the script I can see your point. She doesn't seem to do anything like that in her videos.

Have you seen all of her videos? If not you sound like you are judging her work in the same way you feel she does others.

[ZeroAX]

Sure you can.

I'm pretty comfortable saying "Holy smokes, Mortal Kombat's violence is graphic!" or "Wow, Saints Row has a lot of stereotypes" or "Sheesh, the boobs in DOA Beach Volleyball are ridiculously ginormous!" or "OMG, Bayonetta oozes sexuality" without playing the games.

Ok let me rephrase that: you can't do a proper academic analysis of a work of art outside its context.

Have you seen all of her videos? If not you sound like you are judging her work in the same way you feel she does others.

No, I stated from the start that I haven't. I don't have the time but if there are some of her videos that I missed that prove she's actually done serious work and approached the subject in a more substantial way, I would gladly watch them (link me) and be proven wrong, but as I said already all I see is another stupid rep vs dem grudge match.

You can support a movement and be judgmental of some of its people/ideas it stands for too.

And also, you can be sure that if I was writing a blog post/youtube commentary video or an academic paper on her, I would have made sure to watch everything. But I am just posting an opinion on a forum. But as I said if you have something you think will change my mind, I'll gladly watch it.

[Gunstar Green]

Ok let me rephrase that: you can't do a proper academic analysis of a work of art outside its context.

Why is this standard being imposed? (In regards to the videos only.)

Youtube is not an academic journal, last I checked.

Regardless, she's analyzing the social implications of video games not their role as an art form so taking them into perspective as art is less important to her discussion.

[Erik_Twice]

Sure you can.

Yes, you can judge a game by its cover but you still shouldn't.

[dsheinem]

Sure you can.

Yes, you can judge a game by its cover but you still shouldn't.

You should if you want to assess how covers communicate ideas about games.

This is clearly suggesting something about what the appeal of the game is:

[MrPopo]

That's one hot sheep.

[ZeroAX]

Ok let me rephrase that: you can't do a proper academic analysis of a work of art outside its context.

Why is this standard being imposed? (In regards to the videos only.)

Youtube is not an academic journal, last I checked.

Regardless, she's analyzing the social implications of video games not their role as an art form so taking them into perspective as art is less important to her discussion.

What do you mean with your first question?

I checked her original kickstarter page, and you are right she never mentioned anywhere in that page that this was a documentary or a work of research, it was basically her giving her opinions, so I yes I was partially wrong and I can't be as strict with my judgment of her work.

The perspective of any media as art has a lot to do with its social implication. Simply put if you accept that games are just "games" then the bigots are "right" that she is taking it too seriously.

Think of film. The ones that are the most extreme in violence and in sex sometimes are also the ones with the strongest message.

EDIT
I can't come up with a good example of films that seem misogynistic right now (don't watch a lot of films), but if we took her "extreme" logic about something that's "bad" being always "bad" that means we'd put films that explore the uncivilized nature of man during war (killing innocents, torturing, raping) on the same category as propaganda films about how great the west is and "kill kill kill". Which is why I said she NEEDS to play the games, since there are examples where the original creators, willingly or not, created some of the most interesting/unique/powerful female characters in gaming, but you can't tell that if you don't play the game.

Good cases like that that she got totally wrong are Bayonetta and (even though the game doesn't have any merit as a story telling medium) Dixie Kong, who while by far the "strongest" character in the entire series, she lumped into the group of "negative" female characters.

Has she talked about Final Fantasy yet by the way?

[Ack]

I can't come up with a good example of films that seem misogynistic right now (don't watch a lot of films)

Salo, most post-1980 American action films, the entire slasher genre, etc.

[ZeroAX]

Salo, most post-1980 American action films, the entire slasher genre, etc.

As I said I don't watch a lot of films, and none of these things interest me .

I guess I watch super hero films and those are sexist as fuck