Need Help From The Glorious PC Gaming Master Race

[TSTR]

17.3 inches aren't exactly what I'd call portable.

I get around just fine, thank you very much.

[isiolia]

I'd go with the split plan too. Removing gaming from the laptop equation opens things up a lot. Two machines makes for redundancy, and I would say the ability to keep the laptop strictly business.

For that kind of budget, I'd go with a year or two old corporate model (Dell Latitude, Thinkpad T series, etc). If you can budget an SSD for it, the performance should be great for what you want. Build quality tends to be better, with more of a focus on modular parts that are easy to swap. 14" screen or smaller to keep it mobile.

[marurun]

For that kind of budget, I'd go with a year or two old corporate model (Dell Latitude, Thinkpad T series, etc). If you can budget an SSD for it, the performance should be great for what you want. Build quality tends to be better, with more of a focus on modular parts that are easy to swap. 14" screen or smaller to keep it mobile.

I would actually recommend staying away from older or used models, if only because replacement batteries are EXTREMELY pricey. Even though a battery can last up to 3 - 5 years, they are only warrantied for 1 because they are considered consumables. Further, as a laptop ages, so does the existing battery supply, and vendors don't manufacture many extra. The newer a laptop is, the more available OEM replacement batteries. The older the laptop, the more expensive and harder to get those batteries become. And avoid 3rd party replacement batteries. I have found them to be cheaper, sure, but also much crappier, lasting less than a year and not delivering as much power.

Paradoxically, the cheapest way to buy a replacement battery is at the same time you purchase the laptop itself. Yet, storing a battery in a closet for a couple years and never using it is a good way to reduce its lifespan. So if you buy 2 up front, make sure to swap them out occasionally and keep them fully charged before storing them in a cool, dry place. Also, don't store them for too long at a stretch without topping up the charge.

[isiolia]

I would actually recommend staying away from older or used models, if only because replacement batteries are EXTREMELY pricey. Even though a battery can last up to 3 - 5 years, they are only warrantied for 1 because they are considered consumables. Further, as a laptop ages, so does the existing battery supply, and vendors don't manufacture many extra.

True, but that's one reason to go with a corporate model, since they tend to be designed around using the same parts several years in a row. Chances are, if you really need battery life, they're the ones that are going to have extended batteries and secondary batteries available as well.

Any laptop battery is going to wear out. Between a designed-to-cost-$300 laptop, and one that originally based at $700ish (or more), chances are, the latter will come with something better to start with, and be more worth spending money to replace the battery in down the line.

[Cronozilla]

Modified your first build a bit, would work well for games
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/pp62jX

The only real downside of a tablet is gonna be space, though this is somewhat negated since you're not loading PC games on it. The tablet space is also really good at being a supplemental device when it's useful, but a stand alone device when you need it.

Take a look at these:

Samsung Galaxy Tab S 8.4 OR Samsung Galaxy Tab S 10.5 (They're the same, essentially, but the first one is $100 less since it's screen is 2" smaller. Both are AMOLED, both would require a bluetooth keyboard, and an attachment to use USB or HDMI)

There's also stuff like this Asus Transformer Which is a bit slower, uses Windows 8.1, but gives a Laptop-like experience out of the box. It's also a tablet you can remove from the base. Sort of the next step of notebook computers.

Those tablets are the "high end". There's a mid-range at like $250-$300 that will do all the same things.

You should ask yourself, if I have the desktop covered ... what do I need as a supplemental device away from the house, and at home. If the answer is taking notes for classes or meetings, or something like that. In addition to whatever else the device can do (which is what it sounds like), I think you'd be better served with a tablet than a laptop.

The only caveat to Tablets (outside of those transformer books and similar devices) is you need to buy a keyboard, but they're cheap. Like $15 for a bluetooth android keyboard (iOS ones are pretty cheap too). You might want a case, that could be $10+. And you'll probably want the dongles for USB and HDMI, and those are an unfortunate downside to the device. But all of that together is maybe $60 or so.

I think what would really help is if you talked about what you want the non-desktop device to do.

I think at this point in time, everyone is fairly unanimous ... you should definitely get two devices. But beyond that ... what do they need to do? I'm assuming on the desktop you want it to play games, and the laptop/whatever you want it for office-like work.

[oxymoron]

^ That GPU is crazy expensive. Especially because I'm tied to Amazon solely for this build. Don't you think dual channel would be better then single? Also, I ended up making some changes myself. What'd ya think? I think might settle with this.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/M2cgZL

As for laptops I was looking a this although I might hold off until Black Friday for a Laptop though. Those tablets look pretty attractive also.



~~~~

Is the 360 or XB1 controller better for PC? I have used the XB1 controller and found it better but the fact that it's wired only is a turn off. Thanks for the help everyone.

[Cronozilla]

Eventually, the XB1 controller will probably be better, but for the time being the support is limited, where the 360 controller has 100% support.

About the GPU:

OK, so, the GPU I put in the list is more expensive, primarily because it's 4GB and not 2GB, though there is a 2GB card, and it's $179.99 after rebate, just like the MSI card on Amazon here:

I don't buy MSI anymore, it's a long story, suffice to say, I no longer trust them in any capacity. Though I would choose MSI over HIS, if I had to.

About the CPU:

Another thing about your list, you keep adding a CPU cooler, but it's really not needed, it would make more sense to dump that $20 into the CPU and get a FX 8320 instead. The difference is $10. And it's worth the difference. The stock cooler works fine. You'd be looking at idle temperatures around 35C when the room is a little warm and the fans haven't been cleaned. Under normal temperatures it'll stick around 30C idle. I have a 8320 myself, and I haven't been able to lock it up yet, I've had it for almost 2 years. The CPU isn't any kind of bottleneck, it'll be on other components, like the HDD.

About the RAM:

Memory selection on AMD machines has become ... difficult. Most modules explicitly mention support for Intel platforms and the XMP tech. Only some say they support AMD platforms, and whether or not they will work if they're not listed, or they only list Intel is very hit and miss. So, it's usually best to limit your searches to modules that are known to be compatible. That G.SKEIL stick is probably the best per dollar one for single 8GB at 1866. You do want to aim at consolidating RAM slots so expansion will be cheaper. 8GB is about the minimum I would recommend putting in your machine. It will not be uncommon to hit that limit. The stick I listed, though, isn't available on Amazon, sadly. I wouldn't recommend going below 1600, but you really want 1866 or even 2133 speed.

The new Motherboard you chose is a better choice, for sure. Keep in mind, depending on the model number the bios may need to be flashed prior to being able to use certain FX chips. Asus made it easy, you just need a USB stick and power and their utility for preparing the BIOS file.

I can't really talk about budget laptops I'm really not the person to ask, I think they're all out of place is today's market. I don't think they do anything particularly better than a tablet, and they run things significantly worse than a desktop. Like I said, I would really emphasize the idea that if you don't specifically need a laptop (i.e. very specific software requirements) I wouldn't bother with one. But if you can get a laptop that works for you at $200 or something, that's a good deal. You're not going to get a well working tablet at that price. They really do start at $300 or so. Maybe others have some ideas there.

So, here's a revised build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/wgBy8d

The RAM isn't listed, because it's not on PartPicker, but it is on Amazon.
There's DDR3 1600 and DDR3 1866 version, the difference is $13 (and speed)





The price becomes $662 to $676, depending on which one.
The first one is the same price as the one you selected, but again, allows for more expansions. The board supports up to DDR3 2133 in speed, which would make a noticeable difference. But those are like $110 each right now. 1866 is very good, 1600 is fine. If you want to save the $13 it might be a good idea because in the future, the DDR3 1600 memory might be a lot cheaper to snag than DDR3 1866 considering current trends.

You could wait until next summer when this stuff all goes on sale again grab another stick of RAM, or two. It'll make a noticeable difference. Namely, you can have a lot of programs open under full loads.

[oxymoron]

Do you really think that new CPU is going to be worth it? From what I've read it just makes multitasking better. Also, is there much of a difference between the 270X and the 270? I do like your take on the RAM. I also have to fit in a 360 controller into the budget so saving a little off both those things would really help. Jc, what made you not trust MSi?

So basically this plus the $80 RAM.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8BFYf7

[RyaNtheSlayA]

Lots of good advice in this thread so far. All I really have to add is that it's a much better deal to go with a desktop plus something else for your portable needs if it wont bother you. AMD will generally give you best price-performance (I loved the 8350 I had in my desktop) but a lot of people would rightly recommend Intel at the moment since AMD's future in high performance CPUs and the AM3+ platform is a bit cloudy.

On a more general note, laptops are capable of being good gaming machines. You just have to keep your expectations of price and performance in check. They're not a great option for the budget conscious gamer that's for sure if you want the highest performance. I find my MacBook Pro completely satisfactory but I also know it's pointless to hope to run modern titles at higher than 720p and medium settings if I want 60fps as a general rule.

If I had to recommend a gaming laptop under $900 it would be the Lenovo Y series. Just about the best you can do for the money. Also they are quite portable.

[Cronozilla]

Do you really think that new CPU is going to be worth it? From what I've read it just makes multitasking better. Also, is there much of a difference between the 270X and the 270? I do like your take on the RAM. I also have to fit in a 360 controller into the budget so saving a little off both those things would really help. Jc, what made you not trust MSi?

So basically this plus the $80 RAM.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8BFYf7

About the CPU

effectively, with the software that's currently out for games, yeah they're going to perform pretty similarly (though I know you can really overclock the 8320, It's not unusual for people to get them to 4.7Ghz stable. But that would require a hefty heatsink) The question I'm thinking when I say, get that instead of the 6300 is, what's going to happen within the next 2 years?

The PS4 and XB1 are well on their way to being standard for game development, they're using the AMD FX 8XXX arch. Games are coming out as far back as last year that require quad core, and as soon as PS3 and 360 get dropped, that's probably gonna go up.

And, I think the investment difference of $30 or something, isn't that big of a deal when it comes to that longevity. And, yeah in the mean time, the multitasking is really nice. But, yes, currently, they are in the same performance ballpark ... but as far as I can tell it's because there's nothing designed to take advantage of them quite yet.

The actual numbers are something like, the 8320 at stock speed is about 21% faster than the 6300 when it comes to multi-threaded performance. (Which is about the difference between the stock 8320 and the Intel i7 3770S in multi-threaded performance, a CPU that costs $310! That's a 19% increase for $170. Where as the 8320 is a 21% increase over the 6300 for $30)

So, yes, they are similar, but things are (finally) becoming more multi-threaded (and honestly that won't be saturated until Intel really opens it up, because those are the chips developers will follow)

About the GPU:

Yeah, if you wanted to save some cash, you could get a 270, it wouldn't break the performance too much. The difference between the cards is roughly 3 to 10 fps depending on the game, on average. But, the issue is where that 5ish fps lands. Usually, the 270 is on the underside of a nice framerate, and the 270x is on the preferred side of a nice framerate. It's not going to be like, the 270 runs some game at 38fps and the 270x runs it at 43fps. It's more like the 270 runs it at 26fps and the 270x runs it at 31fps. Or 55fps and 62fps. That's how those numbers seem to settle with 1080p gaming.

But, it should be noted, the AMD cpus are very overclockable, and I have seen evidence of a 4.7Ghz clock on the 8320 increasing some game performance by like 10 or 11fps. So, it depends. I don't think you'd really suffer by getting a 270 over a 270x, but you have weigh the price difference and see if the performance is worth it or not.

Unlike in the case of the CPU, which I think is a no brainier, this is up to you.
And keep in mind the 270X isn't really an amazing card to begin with (It's a good card, but if you want those high framerates, it's not gonna do it you gotta go a little higher). It quite possibly could be something you want to upgrade within 18 months or something.

Really, the thing that will save you the most money is ensuring you've built a stable system that you can upgrade. Because in two or three years, you're talking a third of the computer budget to make it perform like a brand new machine instead of another $600 USD or more. So, skimping on a GPU now, just to get something "good", is totally fine if you want to upgrade later. But if you want it to last a long time without upgrading (which isn't always the best idea), you should definitely look into investing more. That's usually the rule of thumb I would go with. But then I've known people who buy $99 video cards and use them for 6 years then complain that some game won't run ... Again, it's really up to you and what you need out of the machine.

OK, so me and MSI ... here we go:

I found MSI awhile ago, like 2003. They were pretty good, on par or better than Asus in a lot of situations I came across. I used their parts for everything through two machines of my own and several for other people. Around 2006 they started doing weird shit. Suddenly their warranties were lobbed almost in half. They changed the terms for support. Now if you weren't within the first year of the warranty you had to pay $45 to get service. Which is, just utter bullshit. They didn't listen to the hardware failures I had brought up with my equipment. They RMAd my GPU, which is the only GPU I have ever had that artifacted beyond repair and is utterly destroyed. They replaced it ... at my expense ... with a "refurbished" card that had the same problem within a month ... and wanted to charge me another service fee to replace that one.
The warranties on their motherboards dropped from like five years to 2.
The fourth board I bought from them (all others were stellar and still function today) it had so many compatibility problems, that entire PC never actually functioned correctly in all aspects. There were issues with the memory controller and the system chipset and were lots of issues with the SATA bus and its compatibility with hard drives. It was a nightmare.

And to top all that off, during the same period, I had about three rebates from them ... not even one was fulfilled. When I inquired, they didn't even have a record that I registered the hardware (any hardware!).

My friend bought one of their GPUs around the same time I did, different model. Had the exact same problem. It is also completely non functioning now.

So, my response to all that was, fuck those guys.
I haven't used them since, and I haven't had those kinds of issues.

Hope the input helps and gives you some thoughts to weigh.