Gamer Gate

[the7k]

Movies, books and other forms of entertainment are no better or worse than video games, but a whole hell of a lot more is expected of those that report on them.

I also don't see how one could say that other enthusiast journalism cultures don't expect some form of ethics from their representatives. If we're going to talk about sports, there's been numerous sports anchors who have been fired for inappropriate relationships/sexual misconduct (Ron Franklin, Steve Phillips, Jay Crawford, Woody Paige), some of them having been active for decades.

The idea that one has to bend over backwards for game companies just to get access to a story is ridiculous. How the hell would anybody in this industry even know? All they do is take press releases and retype them up. You don't need access for something that is that easily available. You don't need access to play a game and type your thoughts. You don't need access for a story the publisher wants you to publish, and you wouldn't be given access to publish a story they don't want you to publish regardless of how many 2/10s you changed into 7/10s.

If you get that world-exclusive clip to put on your website, but you had to sacrifice your integrity to get it, then all you're doing is getting more money now to get less money later once people have caught on.

[Flake]

Movies, books and other forms of entertainment are no better or worse than video games, but a whole hell of a lot more is expected of those that report on them.

Nope, not a thing that is true. If you can show me examples of similar mass fan revolts against movie reviewers or book reviewers for "ethics", I'll consider this.

I also don't see how one could say that other enthusiast journalism cultures don't expect some form of ethics from their representatives. If we're going to talk about sports, there's been numerous sports anchors who have been fired for inappropriate relationships/sexual misconduct (Ron Franklin, Steve Phillips, Jay Crawford, Woody Paige), some of them having been active for decades.

I did not say any ethics. I said ethics befitting actual journalism on subjects of genuine import reported on in a way where the reporting entity does not depend on the good graces of the groups or people they are reporting on.

The idea that one has to bend over backwards for game companies just to get access to a story is ridiculous. How the hell would anybody in this industry even know? All they do is take press releases and retype them up. You don't need access for something that is that easily available. You don't need access to play a game and type your thoughts. You don't need access for a story the publisher wants you to publish, and you wouldn't be given access to publish a story they don't want you to publish regardless of how many 2/10s you changed into 7/10s.

This is where the onus is on you to do a little research. Exercise some Google-Fu. Every gaming mag, blog, and website has bemoaned (and often suffered) the relationship they have with the game's industry. On more than one occasion a Destructoid or Kotaku review began with an explanation that because of strained relations with publishing group XYZ, they were not able to obtain a pre-launch copy for review.

If you get that world-exclusive clip to put on your website, but you had to sacrifice your integrity to get it, then all you're doing is getting more money now to get less money later once people have caught on.

Please, gamers catch on? You're talking about a demographic that gladly pays for the honor of being led around by the nose. Advertising agencies and game publishers whip their customers up into a frenzy. Consumers line up at midnight on work nights to buy AAA titles that they should know by now will be full of bugs until the next patch, making them little more than unpaid beta testers. And the whole time, these customers know full well that they could just wait two weeks to buy the same game for nearly half the full retail price. That overpriced, incomplete game will be forgotten within a year as another iteration of the series comes out and the cycle begins again.

Again: It's video games. They are fun. They are a great escape from our jobs and problems. But let's not pretend they actually matter. Let's save our sense of social justice for things that are of actual import.

[TSTR]

Again: It's video games. They are fun. They are a great escape from our jobs and problems. But let's not pretend they actually matter. Let's save our sense of social justice for things that are of actual import.

I feel like this is something folks on any side of this issue would do well to take to heart.

[marurun]

Again: It's video games. They are fun. They are a great escape from our jobs and problems. But let's not pretend they actually matter. Let's save our sense of social justice for things that are of actual import.

I agree with almost every single thing you have posted on this topic, except perhaps this. Movies, for example, are mostly entertainment, but the CAN be art, and they can impart important messages and meaning, and we can get very highbrow with them. I think the same thing exists for video games. Look at a game like Gone Home or Papers, Please. Very polarizing titles, the former of which is sometimes not even called a game, yet they've generated strong emotional reactions in some, and I think fall squarely in territory we can call games as art. They tell stories, they impart important messages and meaning, and as such they can tolerate more highbrow critique.

This also doesn't mean that we shouldn't worry about how games cater to their audience. There are lots of women with cash to spend who are being alienated from games rather than catered to. A smart company will find a way to take their money and bring them to the table. Since most companies, especially large ones, are pretty dumb, they aren't doing that.

And while I agree that games are largely an escape, it doesn't mean we shouldn't take them seriously.

Now, where games journalism is concerned, I agree. We shouldn't take games journalism any more seriously than it needs to be. I agree that it's in the same territory and sports, movie, and general entertainment/celebrity journalism, meaning it's mostly punditry and regurgitation of press releases. That doesn't mean there isn't highbrow analysis. That also doesn't mean they can't attempt to tackle bigger issues like social trends or misogyny. But it does mean that when we start talking about stuff like ethics and "proper" behavior, we need to put it in context. Ethics are more important where there's something on the line. In medicine and law, ethics are deadly important. In punditry and minor topic reporting, ethics is a less crucial topic. Further, I think that what others are calling an ethical lapse is in an area where the ethical issues are already pretty borderline, anyway.

[the7k]

Again: It's video games. They are fun. They are a great escape from our jobs and problems. But let's not pretend they actually matter. Let's save our sense of social justice for things that are of actual import.

I feel like this is something folks on any side of this issue would do well to take to heart.

I agree. We should all just expect video games to be much, much lesser than other forms of media and we should just always be satisfied with this.

We should also not be concerned when people poison a multi-billion dollar industry with their self-serving agendas. Let them do what they want with the gaming industry, I mean after all, games are only getting more and more expensive these days, especially with all the hidden costs after buying the game itself. I should be content with getting scammed out of a large part of my paycheck when I just want to have fun!

All that guff.

Has there ever been a case where movie reviewers or book reviewers, not just one or two of them but practically every highly visible one:
1) Pushed aside ethics for personal gain
2) It was discovered and they didn't get fired for it
3) They then attacked their own audience for being concerned about it?

I can't honestly think of another time something like this has happened. Usually Step 2 never happens. As soon as Step 1 happens and it's seen, that person is gone. People with literally decades of experience and brand recognition get tossed out as soon as something comes up that calls into question their validity.

As far as the publisher <-> journalist relationship, while I have seen the results of that, such as Destructoid's mock COD review, has anyone actually done a full-blown story on it? Has anyone tried to call attention to this practice? Or is everyone just too damn afraid of not getting that all important day one review up if they were to go into detail?

These days, when a movie is not screened for critics, it's usually seen then and there as a huge blow to the credibility of the movie. Why don't they just do the same for games? Why don't more people blow up the fact that these games aren't being sent out early to certain publications, the same way Destructoid did it? Hell, that's one of the reasons I had read Destructoid for as long as I had, they weren't afraid to give certain games bad reviews even if it hurt their bottom line. (As was the case with their Raskulls review)

However, we get to that last paragraph and we see the real deal - you don't see gamers as capable of making decisions. You see them all as a bunch of easily led sheep. Oh, they just pre-order whatever the publishers tell them to, the led-by-nose idiots!

Except, people are pre-ordering less and less. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/47 ... re-orders/

Games for evergreen series are seeing lower first week sales as well.
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Dail ... adden.aspx
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/10/ ... r-than-gt5

It's almost as if gamers are learning and they are realizing that they should wait and see instead of just take the publishers and their journalistic sockpuppets word for it. It took a long damn while, I'll give you that, but people are starting to wake up and realize that they've been getting bamboozled for years.

Gamergate seems to be a continuation of declining pre-orders and slower first week sales. Gamers are realizing they've been scammed, and it's not just coming from the companies that have always shown they don't care about anything but their wallets, but it's also coming from the people who are supposed to be our watchdog.

Me personally, this is more a matter of censorship, transparency and ethics. It shouldn't matter what industry you are a part of, the shit that these people have been engaged in shouldn't be excused.

I really need to stop coming back to this thread. It's not like either side is going to be convinced to switch sides or even re-evaluate their own side. Fucking politics.

[dsheinem]

I like how people like the7k take an example of 3-4 relatively unknown journos/devs getting caught in some kind of minor potential ethics violation surrounding a couple of games no one cares about and extrapolates it out into a condemnation of "practically every highly visible" journalist in the industry That's just absurd. Again, people arguing poorly about something they just don't know anything about...like almost all of gamergate.

Flake the reason some people care so much about this is b/c what could have maybe been a healthy debate about the status of hobbyist journalism became a platform for launching death threats by one side and for dismissing the history/relevance of the other side. So yes, "just games"...but also people's livelihoods, identities, etc. It is all a bit echo-chambery and insipid, but there is a little more at stake here than just buying and playing games.

[TSTR]

I guess I wasn't trying to say that games and/or games media aren't important, it's just that everyone needs to calm the fuck down a bit.

SJWs need to calm the fuck down about how every game isn't walking on eggshells around some particular social issue and isn't including/representative of any and all gender/sexuality/race/etc. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and not a weaponized rape tool of the white cis het male patriarchy. Don't like it? Don't buy it or play it. Sure, you can have an opinion, but don't expect everyone to agree with it.

GamerGaters need to calm the fuck down about how every media outlet isn't just straightforward, unbiased press release rewrites. It's okay for people to have an opinion or profess an inclination toward a certain cause. It's not news when they write this stuff, and everyone with half a brain knows it, so just take it for what it is or don't read it. Sure, they could do a better job with transparency and delineating between op-ed and actual reporting, but not all games media is a giant conspiracy fueled by money and sex and lies.

Journos/bloggers need to calm the fuck down about how their audience is misogynistic, hateful morons. Good way to lose a lot of people that you could ostensibly be informing or encouraging debate with. Everyone should acknowledge the fact that, yes, in any group of people there will be a few bad apples. But that doesn't spoil the bunch. Sure, there's gonna be some dipshit on Twitter or Xbox Live saying "get raped and die nigfag bitch." Guess what? They're fucking assholes. Ignore them. Don't feed into it. Cut them out and pay them no attention.

There is room in videogaming for so many things. There is room for Anita Sarkeesian. There is room for hypermacho "male power fantasy." There is room for "sensitive" quasi-games like Depression Quest. There is room for unbiased, researched journalism. There is room for op-ed pieces with a slant toward a particular issue.

Video games and gaming culture are amazing because they, in theory, allow this. Of course there are ways to make it better, and as such folks need to realize what isn't okay.

There isn't room for harassment and threats. Remember the dipshit from earlier? If he moves from calling you a "greasy cuntbag" on Tumblr to posting your PRIVATE personal info and calling you with graphic depiction about how he's gonna wear your vag/balls as a fashion accessory, then it's a police matter. Handle it that route.

There isn't room for articles designed to look like news without giving full disclosure to the audience. Sure, you can aware folks of your lover/financial backer's new videogame, but you damn sure better aware folks of your personal stake in writing about it.

There isn't room for blackballing/attacking people just because they may or may not fit whatever moral mold is "acceptable." So what if they're not online professing their white male guilt with every 140 characters? If they make a good game, cover it. So what if a not-for-profit venture's trans policy isn't worded exactly how you think it should be? Don't doxx and DDoS them, either have a discussion with them about it, or say you won't support it and move on.

The Internet is the world's biggest amplifier, with a hot lead running to every kind of instrument. Maybe if people took the time to turn the volume down a bit, we could all hear the cool music being made.

[dsheinem]

stuff

/thread

well done, sir.

[jp1]

calling you with graphic depiction about how he's gonna wear your vag/balls as a fashion accessory

Word.

J/K, good post to put shit in perspective. I hope to see this thread die a well deserved death now.

[Exhuminator]

/thread