Gamer Gate

[the7k]

This is a good watch for anyone moderate on this issue.

[Key-Glyph]

This thing is going around having sex with journalists for positive press and awards? Do these guys not have standards?...

This kind of personal attack is not relevant to the discussion, and rather out-of-character for this forum.

If this discussion must happen, let's keep it as respectful and civilized as possible. We're good at that here.

[Retrogamer0001]

...and rather out-of-character for this forum.

Not in my experience...though I will certainly admit that I don't exactly have a velvet glove when it comes to these things. Anyway, I better stop commenting before I rattle too many cages. I will say that she's a disgusting example of feminist extremism and this is exactly the sort of thing that people should be outraged about.

[dsheinem]

feminist extremism

I am well versed in the history and politics of feminism and have written and taught on the subject, so I am curious what you are referring to here b/c usually the label "extremist" is a catch-all term of derision for a movement that people disagree with. What's "extreme?" I mean, I am especially hard pressed to think of anything related to video games that could be qualified as "extremism" and examples you've cited like OMG pressing devs to make Tomb Raider less rapey (!) is certainly not "something people should be outraged about"

[flex wood]

#endfathersday isn't enough for you Dave? How about the doxxing of a 12 year old and the death threats he received (that twelve year old took that shit like a champ too fyi)? How about the term rape culture I don't think you can get any more extremist than that. I mean it's pretty much just a shock value phrase.

[Retrogamer0001]

feminist extremism

I am well versed in the history and politics of feminism and have written and taught on the subject, so I am curious what you are referring to here b/c usually the label "extremist" is a catch-all term of derision for a movement that people disagree with. What's "extreme?" I mean, I am especially hard pressed to think of anything related to video games that could be qualified as "extremism" and examples you've cited like OMG pressing devs to make Tomb Raider less rapey (!) is certainly not "something people should be outraged about"

First of all, when did I ever cite that? I haven't mentioned Tomb Raider once in this thread. Second, it's quite obvious from my last few posts that I'm referring to her highly questionable ethical behavior in fucking people in the gaming publication industry for her own personal gain i.e. spreading her own warped brand of feministic values. To me, that's pretty "extreme" and unacceptable behavior.

[dsheinem]

#endfathersday isn't enough for you Dave? How about the doxxing of a 12 year old and the death threats he received (that twelve year old took that shit like a champ too fyi)? How about the term rape culture I don't think you can get any more extremist than that. I mean it's pretty much just a shock value phrase.

What does any of this have to do with video games? Maybe I'm missing something?

I didn't say that there aren't "extreme" views at all or that there aren't always going to be assholes that take an idea and push it to a dangerous place, but I think it is as disingenuous to call these people "extremist feminists" as it would be to call Tim McVeigh an "extremist conservative" or some such. They are just assholes that act on a warped ideological view that's pretty far removed from the group they might think they identify with.

"Rape culture" describes a culture that doesn't treat rape as a serious offense, treats sexual assault as expected or acceptable or reports of it as "overblown", or that otherwise doesn't work to discourage rape. These cultures have existed historically and aspects of them are very real today. There's nothing extreme about naming these practices and condemning them as a mode of guarding against it.

[flex wood]

Ah gotcha. It is pretty much the same people involved in the issues I pointed out and their followers that are attacking gamers on Twitter and the reason for the whole not your shield thing. These people are morons who only see that people are talking badly about a woman and jump on a bandwagon to defend her while ignoring the other issues that have been brought to light and even this persons own misdeeds. It's late I am just getting over being sick I'd explain more but it is what it is. Hope that answered your question enough.

We are going to have to disagree on rape culture but that's for another time/thread or pm. Editing in to clarify I'm not disputing the definition and how rape culture was started but what it has become and how it is used is beyond ridiculous. "He raped me by looking at me" type stuff.

[dsheinem]

First of all, when did I ever cite that?

sorry, it was General Norris. My bad.

it's quite obvious from my last few posts that I'm referring to her highly questionable ethical behavior in fucking people in the gaming publication industry for her own personal gain i.e. spreading her own warped brand of feministic values. To me, that's pretty "extreme" and unacceptable behavior.

Wait, so "feministic values" can be spread through boinking? Woah!

This is why I don't care and can't get worked up about Gamer Gate: it isn't shocking or surprising to me at all that some percentage of people in any journalism field (or any industry at all) would literally start sleeping with the people that they are covering - whether that be journalism about music, movies, sports, or games or whether that be journalism about national or international politics: it isn't surprising, it has always happened and always will. It also isn't surprising that any writer (journalist or otherwise) would write reviews or other industry coverage that is subjective and grounded in their own experience and interests and, perhaps, reflects favorably on people and parts of the industry they like and unfavorably on parts they don't. There's never been an expectation of objectivity from this kind of stuff at any point in the history of games journalism (much of which in the 20th Century was barely more than advertainment anyway).

The only thing that would be "unethical" is demonstrable quid pro quo. I've not seen that. It is not some giant surprise that when you toss people together for long periods of time that they will start fucking one another. Good for them! But, again, this isn't a reason to demonize the game industry, the indie game industry specifically, or game journalism. I mean, hell, much of game journalism is more up front and open about their editorial policies and review practices than almost any other kind of hobbyist media.

Gamers Gate, to me, is basically a lot of people shouting very loudly about things they have very little clue about.

[TSTR]

This is a good watch for anyone moderate on this issue.

Good video.