How do people live without medical insurance?

[Jmustang1968]

It wasnt meant to be disrespectful at all. He is free to state his opinions, I was just saying that I wasnt going to further engage them tonight. We always disagree, and I just dont have it in me to go the rounds tonight. I am far from narrow minded and more times than not, especially on this board, partake in discussions were I disagree with others. Discussions with those who agree arent really discussions as there is nothing to conflict on.

And Jp, I am far from pissed off, and I dont think you have been in a discussion with me when Ive been pissed. In fact, I think I have only been angry on here once or twice and thats when someone was either being purposefully insulting or condescending.

[jp1]

I know you and I aren't likely to be friends Jmustang, based on previous discussion and our total lack of any alignment of our world view.

You'd be surprised. Some of my very fondest friends have completely different politics and world views.

If they dislike 2D platformers, however, they can GTFO...

Same here. I just get the feeling that there is some tension there. Maybe I'm wrong. *shrug*

I'm willing to be buds.

It wasnt meant to be disrespectful at all. He is free to state his opinions, I was just saying that I wasnt going to further engage them tonight. We always disagree, and I just dont have it in me to go the rounds tonight. I am far from narrow minded and more times than not, especially on this board, partake in discussions were others disagree with. Discussions with those who agree arent really discussions as there is nothing to conflict on.

And Jp, I am far from pissed off, and I dont think you have been in a discussion with me when Ive been pissed. In fact, I think I have only been angry on here once or twice and thats when someone was either being purposefully insulting or condescending.

Fair enough. It won't have been the first time I misread someone. Sorry to be presumptuous.

[Jmustang1968]

I know you and I aren't likely to be friends Jmustang, based on previous discussion and our total lack of any alignment of our world view.

You'd be surprised. Some of my very fondest friends have completely different politics and world views.

If they dislike 2D platformers, however, they can GTFO...

Same here. I just get the feeling that there is some tension there. Maybe I'm wrong. *shrug*

I'm willing to be buds.

I think you are really reading into my text way too much. I am a very laid back person. Have you listened to any of the podcasts? Dave and I go at it on the boards and the show sometimes, but I dont recall any being out of anger. I would consider him a friend, and we disagree on many things. I do respect his logical stances behind his views, even if I disagree with his conclusions.

[jp1]

*snip* (sorry, messed it up while shortening)

You know your intentions better than I, obviously. I made an edit to address that as well, before I read this post. It's all good.

[jp1]

I'm not arguing against improving the system; I'm arguing against solutions rooted entirely in idealism. If we accept that people are bastards then we can rig the system to account for that, albeit in an imperfect manner. For example, look at the three pillars of the US government. The checks and balances are there to prevent any one arm from being able to go off willy nilly and doing whatever they want.

I fully agree that the current state of healthcare is pretty fucked up, with the biggest thing being that the costs have spiraled out of control. Maybe healthcare should be treated like a utility, where you don't really have a choice (how many times has someone bleeding out debated over which ER to go to?), but there are regulations that keep the costs to an average affordable level. But you still need to pay or they shut off your water/dialysis.

I can see better where you are coming from, thank you. I have to respectfully disagree on that last bit though. I appreciate your willingness to get into all this. I wasn't meaning to specifically target you, I am intrinsically curious and your views although harsh (in my opinion) are somehow fascinating to me. You seem to have an almost analytic approach to life that I can't wrap my mind around. I don't mean that as an insult, I'm genuinely intrigued by it.

[Jmustang1968]

I would say I have an almost analytical or logic based view on the macro level and policies. I feel too often that misaligned good intentions can do the most harm as they have conviction behind them. I also feel that when too much personal sympathies and ideals are forced because someone feels they should be a certain way, that overall people suffer as these are often implemented out of touch with reality. Instead of bringing up a group, one just brings down the whole, or another group is marginalized and suffers in its wake. I am not talking about healthcare or anything else specifically right now, just in general.

However, on the micro level, I am much more empathetic.

[MrPopo]

Analytic is no insult; I think a lot of problems would be less severe if people were more analytic in how they approach things.

I would say I have an almost analytical or logic based view on the macro level and policies. I feel too often that misaligned good intentions can do the most harm as they have conviction behind them. I also feel that when too much personal sympathies and ideals are forced because someone feels they should be a certain way, that overall people suffer as these are often implemented out of touch with reality. Instead of bringing up a group, one just brings down the whole, or another group is marginalized and suffers in its wake. I am not talking about healthcare or anything else specifically right now, just in general.

However, on the micro level, I am much more empathetic.

I've heard some (admittedly cynical) thoughts that a corrupt politician is better than an idealist one; the corrupt politician is predictable and will go where the money is, while the idealist has an agenda and will see it done, damn the consequences. And the idealist can much more easily justify some pretty terrible things if those things serve his ideal.

[Erik_Twice]

Let's be frank, while nations that provide standardized health care offer it to the masses, a caveat is that said healthcare also suffers from large waiting lists and the potential for a lack of supplies due to overwhelming demand.

I've never had to suffer from "large waiting lists", a lack of supplies and even then there's nothing inherent to how a public hospital is run that makes it worse than a private one

In fact, given profit margins become a concern, supply shortages and long waiting lists will be more common in private hospitals because they will be run as close to maximun capacity as possible.

And it's far easier to have smaller waiting times for healthcare when more than 50% of Americans refused to go to the doctor when sick because they couldn't afford it

Allowing people to pay additional money to access private healthcare from private providers means some people may be able to skip the waiting list

I believe everyone should be able to pay for additional healthcare in addition to their public services if they can afford to. I have a private dentist plan, for example. Interestingly enough the prices of private care are much lower here than in the US.

[dsheinem]

If they dislike 2D platformers, however, they can GTFO...

I think at this point it is probably worth mentioning that Jmustang1968 dislikes platformers in any and all dimensions. I take this as unimpeachable evidence of his bigoted, hateful, and closed-minded world view.

[jp1]

Analytic is no insult; I think a lot of problems would be less severe if people were more analytic in how they approach things.

I've heard some (admittedly cynical) thoughts that a corrupt politician is better than an idealist one; the corrupt politician is predictable and will go where the money is, while the idealist has an agenda and will see it done, damn the consequences. And the idealist can much more easily justify some pretty terrible things if those things serve his ideal.

It wasn't meant as an insult at all. Some people may have taken it as such is why I mentioned it. As to the idealist politician I totally agree that unchecked idealism is just as dangerous, if not more so, than unchecked greed. I did state they have had much the same impact on history. A good balance is important, so that is a great point.

If they dislike 2D platformers, however, they can GTFO...

I think at this point it is probably worth mentioning that Jmustang1968 dislikes platformers in any and all dimensions. I take this as unimpeachable evidence of his bigoted, hateful, and closed-minded world view.

Smart-ass. I remember when you used to join these conversations in a deeper capacity. Have you grown jaded Dsh?