Private University or Trade school?

[ZeroAX]

so many discussions going on in this one thread.....

Welcome to racketboy

[Ack]

You know with the US wasting so much money on education that sucks (USA student rankings compared to students from other countries) I don't understand why you don't try to copy ideas from other countries (say scandinavian countries) that are both doing better than you in school, AND giving equal opportunities to everyone?

Well, except their immigrants.

Seriously though, we should be looking at the Scandanavian countries more often for how they handle their situations, but they have a benefit that we don't: they're largely homogenous. In fact their welfare and education systems have been struggling to deal with the influx of immigrants, much as have other EU nations. Immigration has spiked in the last five years in countries like Sweden, and this is attributed at least in part to their social welfare system. And the US already has a considerably immigration problem to consider, welfare system notwithstanding.

[ZeroAX]

Well, except their immigrants.

Seriously though, we should be looking at the Scandanavian countries more often for how they handle their situations, but they have a benefit that we don't: they're largely homogenous. In fact their welfare and education systems have been struggling to deal with the influx of immigrants, much as have other EU nations. Immigration has spiked in the last five years in countries like Sweden, and this is attributed at least in part to their social welfare system. And the US already has a considerably immigration problem to consider, welfare system notwithstanding.

Unfortunately Europe has a really bad immigration problem. A REAL one. People who want to come here but NOT integrate. I think the worst example are Turkish people living in Germany for 40+ years who don't speak German. I have no idea how they even managed to do that.

But the thing is immigrants STILL get equal chances when it comes to studies and health care. The problem is that you have societies that are very developed (talking about scandinavian ones here, even Germany or France can't compete with them), and then you have immigrants who do manual labor to make ends meet, and even with free health care and education they don't get a chance to develop their skills well enough to compare to people who were born and raised in those countries.


But people from immigrant backgrounds (who's families integrated) are doing the same as the locals from my experience (insert quote about how stupid anecdotal evidence really is).

[jp1]

MrPoPo, I don't think it is people's intellect that is being questioned. Surely there are some people who wouldn't fair well academically in college. Some of them might not be very book smart, some might not be wise, some might not be either...but lumping a large group of people into "dumb" or "not college material in the first place." is what puts a bad taste in my mouth.

I actually was using the best word I know of for "people who don't take the time to think things through even at a cursory level". Like Ack said, there's lots of intelligent people who are still dumb.

I know you have a blunt way of putting things and I'm assuming (hoping) some of it is tongue in cheek. It is just the way it comes across. I find it hard to believe you are as strictly hung up on those beliefs as you are implying, given the generous nature of your charity contributions.

My charity contributions go towards Child's Play, which is more of "hey, let's make the hospital not so scary for kids" thing. Social safety net stuff is a whole different story, and it gets complicated when people who are failing to succeed in society (where success is at minimum defined as being able to feed, clothe, and shelter oneself) start to have kids. There isn't currently a way to let the parents fail while setting up the kids to be able to succeed or not on their own merits.

I agree with much more of that now that you have elaborated some. I don't know if I would think of "letting the parents fail" as a solution, even if it were a possibility without hurting the children. Trying to offer programs, even mandatory programs, with welfare that focus on job skill development and placement is a good start in my opinion.

I've seen some of those programs in my neck of the woods, but I don't know how widespread or mandated they have become. I suppose my beliefs are somewhat different in that I don't mind some of my tax money going to welfare, even if some of it is abused, because I know that it is helping others with things I believe should be basic human rights, like having food to eat and healthcare. I don't see those as things that a person should be without even if my initial assessment of that person is that they don't care to earn it. I can't be sure what landed them there.

Think of some of the vets who have served and been abandoned by this country, disabled, or with ptsd, or whatever that may rely on that same welfare to get by. Other times life just kicks someone in the ass...over and over. I'm not saying that you should give up in that situation, I sure as hell wouldn't (especially with my family to think about). But, not everyone is strong, and that doesn't make them unworthy of compassion. That's just my opinion.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to elaborate on it. I don't know you, so I am only going off impressions from the forum, same as everyone else on the forum in my case since I never went to any of these meet ups. I would like to say that I commend your charitable actions no matter what the cause and no matter our difference of opinion on other topics.

[dsheinem]

demographics research > personal anecdotes when debating topics like the relationships between race & wealth, education & income, etc.

But let's face it, personal experience will shape through what lens we view any research or statistics on this topic. Even if Forlorn were able to provide those kinds of statistics, his interpretation of it would be influenced by his experience.

I guess, but "I know guy X who..." or "in town Y where I live blah blah blah..." just doesn't function as a good argument for the overall state of things when there's mountains of verifiable data contradicting the generalizability of those anecdotes.

I mean, I am no social scientist and I possess what I feel is a strong and healthy skepticism of any and all statistics, but there's just so much hard data, so much relevant impactful history, and just such a wealth of examples about the systematic construction of contemporary subject positions that it gets increasingly difficult to abide people's self-centered views of these related topics.

We recently had what I felt was a much more meaningful (albeit brief) discussion of some of these issues here.

[jp1]

so many discussions going on in this one thread.....

At least it seems to have ventured into a more productive discussion.

[Ack]

demographics research > personal anecdotes when debating topics like the relationships between race & wealth, education & income, etc.

But let's face it, personal experience will shape through what lens we view any research or statistics on this topic. Even if Forlorn were able to provide those kinds of statistics, his interpretation of it would be influenced by his experience.

I guess, but "I know guy X who..." or "in town Y where I live blah blah blah..." just doesn't function as a good argument for the overall state of things when there's mountains of verifiable data contradicting the generalizability of those anecdotes.

I mean, I am no social scientist and I possess what I feel is a strong and healthy skepticism of any and all statistics, but there's just so much hard data, so much relevant impactful history, and just such a wealth of examples about the systematic construction of contemporary subject positions that it gets increasingly difficult to abide people's self-centered views of these related topics.

Sure, but perhaps we should pay particular note to his circumstances due to the perceived extremity of them. If the majority of the country suffers from problems in handling minorities, yet in this instance we found someone who reported the opposite and in fact sees ethnic minorities dominating the top education ranks in his area, then that makes me immediately wonder why this particular area is so different. Is it just his perception that is tainted(which is certainly a likelihood), or are social and welfare-based programs working in this example? Or is there some other issue, such as a shift in what constitutes the ethnic majority/minority that removes his supposed privilege but bestows it upon someone else, differences in wealth distribution, or some other factor that has caused such a change?

We recently had what I felt was a much more meaningful (albeit brief) discussion of some of these issues here.

Uh...that's a thread from 2008 about Xbox light guns.

[dsheinem]

Uh...that's a thread from 2008 about Xbox light guns.

HERE: http://racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=46492

[Ack]

Uh...that's a thread from 2008 about Xbox light guns.

HERE: http://racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=46492

Ah yes, that one. I participated in that one, though at the tail end.

[MrPopo]

Uh...that's a thread from 2008 about Xbox light guns.

HERE: http://racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=46492

You know, it wouldn't surprise me to see a thread on Xbox light guns turn into a thread on social upheaval.