Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

[pepharytheworm]

Yet no playable female characters in an open world game? Doesn't sound promising.

Oh man, there's a reason I've been avoiding this thread like the plague, and statements like that are the main reason. I'm outta here before I get into trouble...

You are making a good choice. Would have been better though if you had said nothing at all.

[BoneSnapDeez]

I didn't realize Anita had received a 2014 Game Developers Choice Ambassador Award. That's pretty cool.

[Hazerd]

Hearthstone tournament explains why women aren't allowed to play

http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/07/02/heart ... ment/#null

But this goes both way, back in February was a All Female tournament, that no one ever heard of or complained about.

All-female LoL Tournament May Threaten Fabric of Gaming Society

http://esportsexpress.com/2014/02/all-f ... g-society/



I honestly dont care what gender play what in only this or that, im NOT ever going to be in one of these tournaments, and im NEVER going to watch one.

[MrPopo]

There's big differences between the two, though. In the case of the male only tournament, it's that they're trying to model themselves after athletic competitions that do have substantial physical differences between the sexes that can affect the game.

The female only tournament, on the other hand, is there to raise the visibility of female competitors. It's something that should go away once the ratio of professional gamers has evened out a bit, but right now if you only follow the main competitions (such as LoL) you would think that girls aren't welcome as competitors.

[flex wood]

Yet no playable female characters in a narrative driven open world game? Doesn't sound promising.

FTFY. The game doesn't need to have a female protagonist and it isn't a create a character game, everyone plays as the same character, because of the narrative the devs have put forth. If it is seen as a risk to the pubs, that they may lose money by doing so, they don't have to do it. Catering to a vocal minority isn't going to make them money because it's a minority. You've never played a Farcry game have you bone? Would a female protagonist get you to play one if you don't like fps games?

I think they could come up with more interesting story just by using a female character, what motives they could use for why she is blowing shit up and riding elephants in to bases and what not. I think it would be more interesting then whatever they are doing story wise now but it's a Farcry game and the story isn't going to effect my enjoyment of the game to be honest.

And I think it should be noted lots of devs and pubs are very aware of the issue and have seen the backlash that Anita and many other vocal feminists have been getting. I am sure they are aware that they would probably lose sales from their main install base by using a female character just due to the fact that so many people are upset about this all that they would claim they sold out to "the SJWs" by using a female in a game where there hadn't been one before.

[Forlorn Drifter]

Another problem I've personally noticed, or at least felt I noticed, is that often when a female protagonist is brought in, the game either flies under the radar due to other decisions in gameplay or such (to an extent, Mirror's Edge might fit here), has problems due to accusations about how the female lead is portrayed and/or is treated (Lara Croft is a good example, especially with the controversy over the rape scene or whatever it was), or is blasted for have a stereotypical female archetype.

I don't exactly know what it would totally take to make it all work, but I know I would not be one to properly write a game story from a female point of view. I think we all know that females are an alien race to me, and as such, I can understand why developers may have issues with creating female characters that don't fall into something they don't intend. (Sexist portrayals, over sexualization, defenseless girl archetype, etc.)

[pepharytheworm]

If they didn't ever "cater to the vocal minority" then we would have a bunch of boring games with lame stereotypes. Also having only a few games a year with female leads of course people are going to judge them more harshly. If 50% or even just 10% percent of games a year starred a female there could be enough diversity that less would feel the need to complain because there are alternatives. When you don't have alternatives I guarantee you will have more to complain about. One ice cream store has three flavors and another has fifty. If you don't really like all three flavors you are going to have a lot to complain about. If you don't like thirty of the flavors at the other shop, you still have twenty you do.

[flex wood]

If they didn't ever "cater to the vocal minority" then we would have a bunch of boring games with lame stereotypes. Also having only a few games a year with female leads of course people are going to judge them more harshly. If 50% or even just 10% percent of games a year starred a female there could be enough diversity that less would feel the need to complain because there are alternatives.

There is no pleasing everyone people are going to complain no matter what. That is just how the world is.

Start catering to a minority and the customer base that a company has had starts to complain.

Start releasing more games with more female leads you get into things like Forlorn pointed out where people will complain and cause a game to have parts rewritten or that the character is too typical.

Then somehow it's a bad thing when these same people get told to make their own game? Are you telling me Anita couldn't pull a together a team of people that agree with her in the industry and get another huge amount of money on kickstarter again? I want to see this happen actually.

[pepharytheworm]

If they didn't ever "cater to the vocal minority" then we would have a bunch of boring games with lame stereotypes. Also having only a few games a year with female leads of course people are going to judge them more harshly. If 50% or even just 10% percent of games a year starred a female there could be enough diversity that less would feel the need to complain because there are alternatives.

There is no pleasing everyone people are going to complain no matter what. That is just how the world is.

Start catering to a minority and the customer base that a company has had starts to complain.

Start releasing more games with more female leads you get into things like Forlorn pointed out where people will complain and cause a game to have parts rewritten or that the character is too typical.

Then somehow it's a bad thing when these same people get told to make their own game? Are you telling me Anita couldn't pull a together a team of people that agree with her in the industry and get another huge amount of money on kickstarter again?

You're missing the point. Not saying no one will complain. But when you have less choices you really are limited on what you can like. And nothing should ever be just about making money. You also need to ask yourself why sometimes "catering to a minority" would alienate the customer base and then you are at the root of the disgusting "MEEEE TOOOO" problem.

[flex wood]

And nothing should ever be just about making money.

AAA video games are made by publicly traded companies so yes it is all about money. Bottom line if they feel like they aren't going to make money by doing something why should they do it?

Maybe instead of talking about how there are no women in mainsteam AAA games time would be better spent talking about how every AAA game is a me too Skyrim, Dark Souls, GTA or CoD wanna be and that the industry hasn't really been bringing much new to the table.

And the reason catering to the minority will alienate the main base is because of how toxic this whole movement has been, on both sides of the fence. Adding in some Dworkin to any argument, like Anita has, is going to come off as attacking who you should really be trying to get on your side to help change things.

And if you don't know who Andrea Dworkin is here
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/autho ... orkin.html

Edit the best way to get things to change is get other people to want that change as well instead of coming off as just a self serving change like many gamers see the push for more female characters. The way I see it right now no one is trying that.

Maybe if we had more female protagonists we could have better stories newer stories that haven't been told as games. Revolutionary ideas in gaming came from constraints in programing ability many times before and I could see a lot of new stuff coming from more female protagonists in story and gameplay because it forces someone to think outside of the normal comfort zone they have already been in.

Tl:dr Changing the status quo is a good thing but how you change it matters more than actually changing it.