POLL: Bootlegs / Reproductions: What is allowed

[Onyxthecat]

Not sure, I guess as soon as the heat gets turned down.

Whatever it takes, man. Whatever it takes.

But, 30 people might be sad.

[dedalusdedalus]

Not sure, I guess as soon as the heat gets turned down.

Whatever it takes, man. Whatever it takes.

But, 30 people might be sad.

Wow, 30's a pretty big number.

Although not nearly as big as the used video game market you'd be affecting.

[Onyxthecat]

ok.

[oxymoron]

Not that my opinion matters much in this debate but I think Onyx should be able to sell his repro's. He is not doing anything wrong as long as he makes sure to let the consumer know it's a bootleg. I don't think it's RB's responsibility to protect gamers down the line. As for it affecting the value, I would imagine repro's would lower it. Isn't that a good thing?

.2

[ninjainspandex]

Onyx isn't the only one - but certainly he is selling them the most often and afaik, the only one on here routinely selling games released in the US that in my opinion have no reason being made.

Clifton, seriously, why would you want a Grind Stormer bootleg? The original is widely available as a US release. As you said - you were able to put the PCB in a US case. You used a fake label - there are many who wouldn't do that. Regardless - that Grind Stormer is now available as a repro does the following:

-Skews the market on originals
-Creates doubt about the authenticity for others when they go to buy or sell
-Sacrificed an orginal GEN cart

I don't buy-in to the notion that we are not responsible for what happens away from here. What a sad state of affairs if we applied that as our criteria for taking up a cause.

Heh if you saw what a glop top mess that PCB looked like I assure you no one will confuse it for the real thing. Why you ask did I buy them? They were dirt cheap and it was a fun project. I guess I have a more libertarian view on things than you, all good dude

Now may I ask why this is so different then people selling Neo Geo MVS bootlegs at bootleg prices? Or any arcade games for that matter. Hell bootlegs are so common among MVS that it is just common practice to open the cart and check the boards. It really isn't hard to spot bootlegs.

Technically selling boots on Neo-geo is against the rules but no one ever listens to that rule because they are clearly stated as bootlegs and priced accordingly.


Wait a second Mike how is this any different than you having a conversion made of Progear? You know what they say about people who live in glass houses

[mjmjr25]

I have zero conversions in my CPS2 collection. I had a Pro Gear conversion when I was a noob in cps2 and didn't know any better, got it from Christoph and I sold it to Dunpeal iirc and he knew what it was. I have all original cps2 boards, most on battery.

Further to that point - CPS2 conversions are dead boards at the time and as you know they can be resurrected with any game code. Most people don't go out of their way to kill a good boards - that is heavily frowned upon. I don't care for CPS2 conversions which i've told you in PM, and lets not pretend they are the same thing as GEN repros either.

I have one AES conversion that I bought as an original, but found out otherwise. A $700 mistake. I believe the seller didn't know either as he's a trusted guy. Now I know how well fakes can be done and I don't buy anything AES over $500 unless providence is established or i've paid to have it inspected.

MVS boots are not allowed on Neo forums and you're right, sometimes that rule is enforced, sometime it isn't. You also know anyone trying to pass off a fake as real on that forum, or even off that forum, won't be able to survive on that forum.

A multi-cart was never an official release. There is zero chance of confusing it with an original game. Even swapping shells or labels doesn't cover this up. Different category altogether. ...and as you also know - I no longer own any multi-carts either. I've always said the purpose of a multi-cart to me, is to try games out, buy the games you like, and move it along. I don't collect them and I don't have any in collection. I have all originals of the games i've enjoyed on my multicarts.

I have zero problem if this community isn't grossed out by booting official US release games. I am and i'll gladly share my thoughts.

[dedalusdedalus]

Now may I ask why this is so different then people selling Neo Geo MVS bootlegs at bootleg prices?

I just want to amplify some of Mike's points. Here's why I think there's a line drawn regarding the MVS.

As you know, the MVS was never originally intended for home consumption since it was the arcade format. So who bootlegged the cartridges? Shady arcade owners who wanted to avoid paying SNK royalties.

So, when MVS cartridges slowly made their way into the hands of private collectors, the market was already rife with bootlegs. There never was a time when you could be an MVS collector and not worry about bootlegs. There was no fall from the Garden of Eden, so to speak. On the other hand, there was a time when you could buy NES, SNES and Genesis cartridges without ever worrying about authenticity. I'm not sure if we've entirely crossed the line yet, but I'd like to keep things that way.

Also, while it's true that the concern about bootlegs being represented as authentic at some point downstream could be avoided with a bit of know-how and diligence, you've got to concede that there will be someone who will get screwed over at some point. I mean, look, there's a shitload of threads on NG.com along the lines of "MVS: Boot or Not?" so some boots really aren't as obvious as you'd imply.

With that said, I think the idea of "what happens downstream isn't our responsibility" is short-sighted at best, and irresponsible at worst. I mean, you'd be fine with leaving a banana peel on top of a flight of stairs, because whoever slips on it should have been looking more carefully?

I honestly don't want video game collecting to suck, so I'm trying to avoid that outcome.

Technically selling boots on Neo-geo is against the rules but no one ever listens to that rule because they are clearly stated as bootlegs and priced accordingly.

Well, it's also a very different culture there. If onyx tried to sell his wares over there, I'd wager that stronger and less diplomatic opinions would have been voiced.

Also, try to sell a conversion of a commercially released AES game there and see what happens.

[dsheinem]

it's also a very different culture there.

From everything I've heard here, it sounds like a pretty horrid place and I am not sure why we'd want to model anything we do after them.

[mjmjr25]

it's also a very different culture there.

From everything I've heard here, it sounds like a pretty horrid place and I am not sure why we'd want to model anything we do after them.

Since when are you the type of person who'd make an opinion on hearsay? Yeah, shadiness isn't sugarcoated. (A) that's not always a bad thing, (B) that is only present in a small fraction of threads either in the war-room or things gone wrong in the marketplace.

I've met a TON of really genuine and good guys on that forum.

[dedalusdedalus]

it's also a very different culture there.

From everything I've heard here, it sounds like a pretty horrid place and I am not sure why we'd want to model anything we do after them.

With respect, Dave, and without saying anything negative about NG.com, your opinion regarding the culture at NG.com isn't exactly relevant to the validity of their stance on reproductions.

It's like saying "Johnson says it's a bad idea to wear a steak suit when watching lions. But from what I understand, Johnson's a horrid person, so he's gotta be wrong."

Anyhow, I've laid out my position on reproductions. With reproductions of commercially released games, there's a risk that they will at one point they'll be passed off as authentic. This will eventually damage the integrity of the marketplace and lead to a trust breakdown, as in the AES and perhaps MVS markets. In my view, not having to worry about reproductions passed off as authentic is a greater good than the free exchange of reproductions.