Ever picked up a game that wasn't really a game?

[BogusMeatFactory]

They aren't? If I go to a store and buy Casablanca, will it be under the movie section, music section or video game section?

Just because they are broad, does not mean they are not genres. Entertainment is cut up into genres. They are genres of entertainment.

"Hey what kind of film are you watching?"

"Oh it's a Movie film."

@prfsnl_gmr

Yes it is a pissing contest. It is someone arguing that they are right over another person, to prove a point that they know more are a better judge of what is right and what is wrong. Want to talk Genre? Genre is meaningless. Is that an action game? Or is it an action adventure rpg hybrid with puzzle and rhythm undertones? Does it matter? No!
I want you to take every single video game and give me the definitive genre of it that is universally agreed upon by every single person who plays video games. You can't. It is an impossible endeavor that is a waste of time. What defines a game or not is not up to anyone out there to determine, because it is impossible.

Is counting certain types of cars you pass on the freeway a game? What about Slug-Bug? How does that change the meaning of game? This is as fruitless a topic as, "What is the meaning of life?"

People like to have this discussion to discount games they do not like or do not feel are worthy of their attention and they argue with other people over it and it is a waste of time.

That's all I'm saying.

[Violent By Design]

They aren't? If I go to a store and buy Casablanca, will it be under the movie section, music section or video game section?

Just because they are broad, does not mean they are not genres. Entertainment is cut up into genres. They are genres of entertainment.

"Hey what kind of film are you watching?"

"Oh it's a Movie film."

That's because genre's can be split into sub genres, so you intentionally asked your question from a different umbrella.

To show how ludicrous this example is, it is the same thing as me saying this

"What kind of RPG are you playing"

"Oh, it's an RPG"

Using your analogy, RPGs are not a genre.

[Luke]

It isn't a pissing contest.

It is now.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Yes it is a pissing contest. It is someone arguing that they are right over another person, to prove a point that they know more are a better judge of what is right and what is wrong.

We are not engaging in an ego-driven arguments, nor are we disparaging the opinions of other members. Rather, we are discussing whether certain types of software should be classified as "games," "toys," "instruments", etc. Each of these terms has a well-settled definition, and we are simply expressing our judgment as to whether certain pieces of software fit those definitions. As part of that discussion, we often state the bases for our classifications. Accordingly, we are engaging in a "discussion" or "debate" - you might even term it an "argument" - but we are not engaging in a "pissing contest".

Want to talk Genre? Genre is meaningless. Is that an action game? Or is it an action adventure rpg hybrid with puzzle and rhythm undertones? Does it matter? No!

Everything we discuss on these forums is "meaningless". Moreover, whether a discussion has "meaning" or "matters" should not prohibit us from engaging in discourse. If we think it is fun to discuss whether Electroplankton is a "game" or an "instrument", why should we be prohibited from doing so? The result of our discourse probably will not prevent the heat death of the universe, but that is no reason to refrain from any enjoyable activity.

I want you to take every single video game and give me the definitive genre of it that is universally agreed upon by every single person who plays video games. You can't. It is an impossible endeavor that is a waste of time. What defines a game or not is not up to anyone out there to determine, because it is impossible.

OK...The fact that we may never reach a universal consensus as to the genre classification for every piece of software is not a compelling reason to refrain from participating in an enjoyable intellectual exercise.

Is counting certain types of cars you pass on the freeway a game? What about Slug-Bug? How does that change the meaning of game? This is as fruitless a topic as, "What is the meaning of life?"

I don't think that comparing "Is Electroplankton a game?" with the question at the heart of both philosophy and religion serves your point very well...

People like to have this discussion to discount games they do not like or do not feel are worthy of their attention and they argue with other people over it and it is a waste of time.

Playing video games is a "waste of time". All of our discussions on these forums are a "waste of time." It was a "waste of time" for me to respond to your message. Ultimately, whether something is a "waste of time" is even more of a subjective inquiry than an inquiry regarding software genre classifications. (At least the terms "game" and "toy" have well-settled definitions.) If we enjoy discussing genre classification, then we should do so regardless of whether you think we our efforts are ultimately futile.

(BTW...I adore Electroplankton regardless of whether is is a "toy" or a "game" and classifying it as an "instruement" or "toy" does not belittle my appreciation of it.)

That's all I'm saying.

Good. If you have nothing to add to a conversation that I and several other members are enjoying, then please stay out of it.

[Retrogamer0001]

Yea I was super excited years ago for The Bouncer, turned out it was just a movie! Lol

All jokes aside it was a let down, the hype leading up to its release was huge

It was definitely a let-down, only being about two hours long, but I still think it's an ok beat em up. It really is more of a demo though, with limited replay value unless you want to max out all stats.

[alienjesus]

Is counting certain types of cars you pass on the freeway a game? What about Slug-Bug? How does that change the meaning of game? This is as fruitless a topic as, "What is the meaning of life?"

I dunno what slug-bug is, but counting cars on the freeway can absolutely be a game. It doesn't change the meaning of a game at all.

The reason I call electroplankton a toy is because it a tool which you use to create your own game. In the same way as my Biker Mice from Mars figurines used to go epic adventures - imagining the adventure was the game, the figurines were the toys that faciliatated it. Electroplankton has no pre-defined goals, nor a 'correct' way to play. You make your own game out of it. It's a toy by what I understand a toy and a game to be.

This is also why I would consider basically all video game consoles toys, but not all video games toys. Arguably by definition every game could be a toy, but I see a distinction between a game which has it's own rules and objectives, (and win and lose states, although these aren't compulsory) and a game which lets you play in your own way.

I have no objection to people disagreeing with my definition. In fact, I welcome it, it;s interesting.

Games and play in child development and escapism is a subject I covered a lot when I was doing my degree at uni. It's a subject that I find incredibly interesting. Categorising is the way humans understand the world, and it's not flawless, but it is interesting.




On another note,'films' 'games' and 'books' are not genres. They're mediums. To label them otherwise is to completely misuse the word genre.

[Luke]

You make your own game out of it.

You basically described my view on life.

[BogusMeatFactory]

I dunno what slug-bug is, but counting cars on the freeway can absolutely be a game. It doesn't change the meaning of a game at all.

The reason I call electroplankton a toy is because it a tool which you use to create your own game. In the same way as my Biker Mice from Mars figurines used to go epic adventures - imagining the adventure was the game, the figurines were the toys that faciliatated it. Electroplankton has no pre-defined goals, nor a 'correct' way to play. You make your own game out of it. It's a toy by what I understand a toy and a game to be.

This is also why I would consider basically all video game consoles toys, but not all video games toys. Arguably by definition every game could be a toy, but I see a distinction between a game which has it's own rules and objectives, (and win and lose states, although these aren't compulsory) and a game which lets you play in your own way.

I have no objection to people disagreeing with my definition. In fact, I welcome it, it;s interesting.

Games and play in child development and escapism is a subject I covered a lot when I was doing my degree at uni. It's a subject that I find incredibly interesting. Categorising is the way humans understand the world, and it's not flawless, but it is interesting.




On another note,'films' 'games' and 'books' are not genres. They're mediums. To label them otherwise is to completely misuse the word genre.

Slug-Bug is just hitting someone in the car when you see a volkswagon beetle. I understand your point on the definition of toy and the like and I find that to be very interesting. I like the way that you are approaching the thread Alien, I don't want anyone to think that I am attacking a person in particular.

Look, I am not saying that everyone is wrong, my big issue is that these discussions always devolve into an, "I'm right, your wrong scenario." I get frustrated with how people constantly strive to define things like this. All these definitions do is create divisions and those divisions help people pass judgement on others based on that. Can't we just say, I like video games and leave it at that instead of saying, "These are not games," and then spend time on explaining why, even though to a lot of people that is what they consider as a game. It is semantics and I don't enjoy it. I like games...I don't hate anyone here for taking part in the discussion or anything, but I personally find it silly.

[Violent By Design]

I dunno what slug-bug is, but counting cars on the freeway can absolutely be a game. It doesn't change the meaning of a game at all.

The reason I call electroplankton a toy is because it a tool which you use to create your own game. In the same way as my Biker Mice from Mars figurines used to go epic adventures - imagining the adventure was the game, the figurines were the toys that faciliatated it. Electroplankton has no pre-defined goals, nor a 'correct' way to play. You make your own game out of it. It's a toy by what I understand a toy and a game to be.

This is also why I would consider basically all video game consoles toys, but not all video games toys. Arguably by definition every game could be a toy, but I see a distinction between a game which has it's own rules and objectives, (and win and lose states, although these aren't compulsory) and a game which lets you play in your own way.

I have no objection to people disagreeing with my definition. In fact, I welcome it, it;s interesting.

Games and play in child development and escapism is a subject I covered a lot when I was doing my degree at uni. It's a subject that I find incredibly interesting. Categorising is the way humans understand the world, and it's not flawless, but it is interesting.




On another note,'films' 'games' and 'books' are not genres. They're mediums. To label them otherwise is to completely misuse the word genre.

Slug-Bug is just hitting someone in the car when you see a volkswagon beetle. I understand your point on the definition of toy and the like and I find that to be very interesting. I like the way that you are approaching the thread Alien, I don't want anyone to think that I am attacking a person in particular.

Look, I am not saying that everyone is wrong, my big issue is that these discussions always devolve into an, "I'm right, your wrong scenario." I get frustrated with how people constantly strive to define things like this. All these definitions do is create divisions and those divisions help people pass judgement on others based on that. Can't we just say, I like video games and leave it at that instead of saying, "These are not games," and then spend time on explaining why, even though to a lot of people that is what they consider as a game. It is semantics and I don't enjoy it. I like games...I don't hate anyone here for taking part in the discussion or anything, but I personally find it silly.

Every discussion comes down to someone thinking they are right and someone thinking they are wrong. If the discussion was "I like video games and leave it at that" - what would be the point? It isn't a conversation if two or more people are not talking.

[darsparx]

Slug-Bug is just hitting someone in the car when you see a volkswagon beetle.

Yeah that freaking hurts...especially when I was trying to play portable systems in my dad's truck...even when I said I wasn't playing that game and wanted to play my video games i was still somehow playing....