Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

[noiseredux]

Irish, I think our taste overlaps here, but in diff ways. Personally, Hov is still one of my favs in the game. And I'm excited every time he drops an album. Also... American Gangster is possibly my favorite album of his. Tough to say for sure. But those 3 are my Top 3.

[Luke]

For me, Jay-Z peaked at Reasonable Doubt.

this is maybe the most ridiculous statement I've seen in this thread. I mean, if you're just meaning to say "Reasonable Doubt is my favorite," then fine. That's something. But if you think his talent/skill peaked at his first record, that's just crazy.

Blueprint, Black Album and American Gangster are all well above RD for me. And I do think RD is a classic.

As an artist, I do think he peaked with RD. After that he had other people do his work for him. Black album should be called "Pharell, Swizz beats, and co. album". Even his Mother had more original content than jigga.

[IrishNinja]

Irish, I think our taste overlaps here, but in diff ways. Personally, Hov is still one of my favs in the game. And I'm excited every time he drops an album. Also... American Gangster is possibly my favorite album of his. Tough to say for sure. But those 3 are my Top 3.

i really should revisit AG, i was just happy to enjoy his stuff again after KC/BP3 etc. i get excited to, but...the beats on MCHG were top notch, yet he felt sloppy on some of it and i hate that. Ross practically ate him/dropped a better verse on his own shit, that kills me.

stuff like that is Chrono Cross syndrome for me, haha...if it was a different dude i'd enjoy the album more, but having heard the heights he's capable of, i can't hide my disappointment.

As an artist, I do think he peaked with RD. After that he had other people do his work for him. Black album should be called "Pharell, Swizz beats, and co. album". Even his Mother had more original content than jigga.

wait so you're what, knocking black album cause jay himself didn't product it or something? maaaan you gotta be a huge Nas stan or something, and i'm a pretty big Nas stan myself so that's saying something. that whole album minus maybe Justify my Thug was fire...i'm still waiting for the day i'm off probation just to put my feet up on my Lt.'s desk like ALLOW ME TO REINTRODUCE MYSELF

[noiseredux]

not sure if you're trolling me Luke.

Swizz Beats produced zero tracks on The Black Album. It's cool if you prefer RD, but you're using non-truths to try to make (some kind of?) your point.

But yeah, there were several producers. Which seems irrelevant to your argument of Jay-Z's talent anyway. He had several producers on Reasonable Dobut as well. What does that have to do with HIS talent?

Lyrically, a bulk of The Black Album ("99 Problems," "PSA," "Threat," "Lucifer") is way more interesting than a lot of RD - in MY opinion. He did some cools stuff on RD, like "22 Two's" but I feel like that real word-play was far more abundant on The Black Album.

The fact that his mom is on the opening track... again... how does that address his talents? Her material was "more original?" What? She just talks about him as a child during interludes in a song. I'm lost as to what your argument is here.

Again, your opinion on which album is better is your opinion. But when you try to state some stuff as proof with no basis in fact, it's kind of tough to take seriously and have any real debate.

[IrishNinja]

i wasn't really a big swizz fan but he did some good work with jigga on other albums, i'm much bigger on just blaze from that era. also as a Primo fan i love RD but personally - and this is blasphemy with some dudes - i prefer his beat on stuff like a million & one questions.

[noiseredux]

"A Million & One" is good.

Just Blaze is amazing w/ Jigga. Dood, go put on "Ignorant Shit" from American Gangster right now!

[Luke]

not sure if you're trolling me Luke.

Swizz Beats produced zero tracks on The Black Album. It's cool if you prefer RD, but you're using non-truths to try to make (some kind of?) your point.
I'm lost as to what your argument is here.

I'm making half-truths, and there is no "argument", just a matter of opinion.

My thing is that I can't think of a non-money making radio friendly collab that Jay-z has done in over a decade that wasn't phoned in. I feel zero passion in his albums.

And I worship the ground Rick Rubin walks on, always have. That said Rick produced the track, Jay z probably had another phantom writer write his lyrics, he showed up, rapped, said "Hov" and left not giving a fuck.

Most rappers lose every element of hip hop once they become famous. Some don't. Case in point, Eminem was less than stellar for years, and then Rap God dropped and kicked my teeth in. That was no holds barred I'm still the best in the game, fuck off and so on. Jay-z is main stream color by numbers. Not that it's not a profit machine, but that's not my style of rap.

Sure, be self aggrandizing, that comes with rap. But say something. Saying Tom Ford over and over is ass. magna who gives a shit was a complete embarrassment.

And I take my music personally. To me Jay-z is to hip hop what Greenday is to punk.

I could never imagine my faves like Gangstarr releasing tracks about shoes or starring in videos with lebron james promoting the next burger from McDonalds.

And yes, damned if you do and damned if you don't in the rap gang. But there are certainly many reasons jay-z is the most parodied rapper. 'Cause he's a clown.

[noiseredux]

Jay z probably had another phantom writer write his lyrics, he showed up, rapped, said "Hov" and left not giving a fuck.

...right. So like I was saying, opinions are one thing. Making up "facts" is something else. I can't really have a conversation when someone's doing the latter.

[Luke]

Jay z probably had another phantom writer write his lyrics, he showed up, rapped, said "Hov" and left not giving a fuck.

...right. So like I was saying, opinions are one thing. Making up "facts" is something else. I can't really have a conversation when someone's doing the latter.

My imagination is shot then, as I couldn't imagine him doing anything other than just that. I mean, it is what he is paid to do.

Pretty sure Tom Hanks goes to a set, reads his lines, leaves with a paycheck and doesn't give a fuck too.


They're entertainers dude. To think of them as anything else is folly.

[noiseredux]

yes. Jay-Z is like Tom Hanks... in That Thing You Do. Cuz Tom Hanks wrote that one. And I bet you Tom Hanks did give a fuck. You're dismissing the creative part. The writing. It's fine if you don't like Jay-Z. It's fine if you find him talentless. That's your opinion. But accusing him off not writing his lyrics is without basis. Your analogy that Jay-Z just shows up to the studio and raps the lines someone else wrote... not sure where you get it. Again, if you don't like him - fine. But don't make up some other scenario. Of course he's an entertainer. One that I admire because whether you see it or not, actually does care about what he creates. I don't expect you to read Decoded, or even give a crap. But I also don't expect you (as a bud) to want me to concede for some odd reason that he's some phony that doesn't deserve my admiration.