Finally played through BioShock!

[Mozgus]

^^ Ditto x2

[RadarScope1]

In my opinion Bioshock was GOOD, no more, no less but gaming websites have made it out to be some gaming masterpiece and a visionary game ahead of its time, which couldn't be farther from the truth. The game relies on a lot of dated game design mechanics(respawning enemies, fetch quests, an escort mission, making enemies tougher by just increasing their health, etc.). There's cheap hits everywhere from those stupid hidden turrets. Plus, the weapons don't feel right and the game has a SERIOUS lack of enemy variety.

One of the most overrated games to come out in recent years. Just my opinion though. I'm not gonna say I didn't enjoy it at all, I just didn't think it was THAT good. Nice story though, but not as deep and complex as people make it out to be

I'm not saying this stuff isn't true -- but I guess I looked at it from a different perspective. I took two steps back and viewed it from forest rather than trees viewpoint, which is kind of what I get from your comments here (trees).

It's just the themes running through the game -- like exploring the ideas of control and free will, and here you are controlling this character throughout the whole thing. Fontaine is "asking" you to do this stuff and you find yourself doing it. Why? Why, indeed. Little touches like the fact that "It Had to Be You" is playing as you come into Rapture, and yes it did have to be you in this place at this time for this to happen, because you were the subject of the mind control experiment. I am also a huge fan of well-done atmosphere and, while it's a subjective thing, I personally liked the atmosphere in this game. Art deco 1940s is a nice break from space marines and moon bases.

So while I find myself being critical of very specific design elements all the time when I play games, if there's enough of that certain something there that turns me on, I often overlook those flaws. It's why I enjoy games like Shadow of the Colossus.

Also, I don't play a lot of shooters at all and I never even heard of System Shock 2 before Bioshock came out, let alone played it. So, I'm sure that has a hell of a lot to do with it.

[Pulsar_t]

In my opinion Bioshock was GOOD, no more, no less but gaming websites have made it out to be some gaming masterpiece and a visionary game ahead of its time, which couldn't be farther from the truth. The game relies on a lot of dated game design mechanics(respawning enemies, fetch quests, an escort mission, making enemies tougher by just increasing their health, etc.). There's cheap hits everywhere from those stupid hidden turrets. Plus, the weapons don't feel right and the game has a SERIOUS lack of enemy variety.

One of the most overrated games to come out in recent years. Just my opinion though. I'm not gonna say I didn't enjoy it at all, I just didn't think it was THAT good. Nice story though, but not as deep and complex as people make it out to be

I'm not saying this stuff isn't true -- but I guess I looked at it from a different perspective. I took two steps back and viewed it from forest rather than trees viewpoint, which is kind of what I get from your comments here (trees).

It's just the themes running through the game -- like exploring the ideas of control and free will, and here you are controlling this character throughout the whole thing. Fontaine is "asking" you to do this stuff and you find yourself doing it. Why? Why, indeed. Little touches like the fact that "It Had to Be You" is playing as you come into Rapture, and yes it did have to be you in this place at this time for this to happen, because you were the subject of the mind control experiment. I am also a huge fan of well-done atmosphere and, while it's a subjective thing, I personally liked the atmosphere in this game. Art deco 1940s is a nice break from space marines and moon bases.

So while I find myself being critical of very specific design elements all the time when I play games, if there's enough of that certain something there that turns me on, I often overlook those flaws. It's why I enjoy games like Shadow of the Colossus.

Also, I don't play a lot of shooters at all and I never even heard of System Shock 2 before Bioshock came out, let alone played it. So, I'm sure that has a hell of a lot to do with it.

Wasn't that done ten years ago with Gordon Freeman being 'chosen' in Half Life 1? I'm not sure about 'free will' either. You either harvested the little critters or you didn't. For the ending the game just tallied your choices and the corresponding 30 second ending movie was shown. Hardly groundbreaking or controversial. But I admit I enjoyed the atmosphere. Possibly the most engrossing since Blade Runner (the game)

[Ack]

I'd argue the 'controversial' part was more in the appearance of harming children. Sure, the Eves aren't normal children, but either way, you had to ask yourself at some point "Do I really want to kill this kid?"

In general, violence towards kids has been avoided in video games. Concerning the amount of flak games currently get over violence, it makes sense. But if you're interested in the "games as art" argument, you have to ask yourself about it: should there be games like that?

Unfortunately I haven't gotten to play much of Bioshock, so I couldn't give a complete impression of the title. From what I did get to try, it seemed ok. But I only made it to the medical facility, so...yeah...

[Mozgus]

I'd argue the 'controversial' part was more in the appearance of harming children. Sure, the Eves aren't normal children, but either way, you had to ask yourself at some point "Do I really want to kill this kid?"

Hmm, I didn't ask myself anything. Then when I learned that killing them gave me tons of those...whatever they called their expendable EXP points in Bioshock, I pretty much didn't look back.

[RadarScope1]

Wasn't that done ten years ago with Gordon Freeman being 'chosen' in Half Life 1?

Well... kinda. I didn't pick up anything like that from HL1 and I'm still working my way though HL2, but I don't see much to do with free will there. The theme in Bioshock is probably better summed up as 'control.' Who controls whom? Fontaine? The character? The player? It's like, totally meta, dude.

The sisters don't have much to do with this concept IMO. Yeah, it was kind of gimmicky, and ultimately didn't matter much. I'll give you that. There still aren't many games that have really nailed the concept of truly consequential choices. For what I understand Fallout 3 makes some progress in this regard.

[Gamerforlife]

I'd argue the 'controversial' part was more in the appearance of harming children. Sure, the Eves aren't normal children, but either way, you had to ask yourself at some point "Do I really want to kill this kid?"

Hmm, I didn't ask myself anything. Then when I learned that killing them gave me tons of those...whatever they called their expendable EXP points in Bioshock, I pretty much didn't look back.

Actually, this brings to mind another interesting point. The game leads you to believe that you get less Adam to spend if you save the girls, which is a fascinating idea. Take the moral high road, and get punished for it. However, saving the girls gets you gifts from their caretaker as a show of gratitude, which basically amounts to more Adam for you to spend. So in reality, the game tries to fool you into thinking there is a consequence for doing the right thing when there really isn't

[AwesomeMonstar]

Seeing as this is a retro site and I've only heard it mentioned a handfull of times on the site.... Wasn't System Shock 2 just awesome? I love bioshock, but really, SS2 did everything bioshock did and better years before it came out (aside from all the cool environmental and elemental stuff. light an enemy on fire and they head for water, shock the water they all die... and man was that water pretty). It gave me that feeling you get when you play a game for like, the first hour and know it's going to be a favorite, you're just absolutely convinced.