Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

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TSTR
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Re: Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

Post by TSTR »

stickem wrote:If you like early triple 6, like tear da club up, another group in memphis called krucifix klan sound just like them. Or the main guy evil pimp. I'm not sure which group was first.
So the first Krucifix Klan song I found on YouTube ("9 Cocked") is slamming 808s and gunshot samples behind the Phantasm theme.

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Re: Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

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dsheinem wrote: In brief, no - concern about "cultural appropriation" is not "neoliberal bullshit". The "neoloberal bullshit" I was referring to (and that I think the articles are referring to) is the idea that Macklemore somehow absolves or adequately addresses the dynamics of race/gender that he folds into his lyrics and music. He's preaching to a choir, and even worse he's a preacher that addresses oppression but doesn't speak from a place of personal experience with it.
While you might have been able to say he was preaching to choirs a few years ago, within the last year Macklemore has become far too popular to say that he simply speaks to a niche audience that already agrees with him. Part of what makes "Same Love" an important song is that it is coming from someone that is a household name, and he is taking a stand on something that is controversial on the societal level. We can quibble over the lyrics not quite being perfectly to the standard of people like the blogger you posted, but honestly there is no one else with as recognizable a face making mainstream music about gay rights and gay marriage who is not gay themselves. I note that because I actually think in terms of changing people's minds, it's important that there be straight people taking a clear stand on the issue, because it's not just a gay issue, it's a human rights issue. I was in the streets of Capitol Hill (the predominantly gay Seattle neighborhood) when the gay marriage laws passed here. People were filling up intersections, dancing, cheering, celebrating and singing this song over and over. That is music making a difference in people's lives in a profound way. That song has been very meaningful in the marriage equality movement, especially here in his home town as the timing of its release made it something of an anthem. Now, on the larger world stage, as he has increased in popularity, it's been involved in other movements and dialogue on this issue. I can understand the writer's points that you posted, but that was the right song at the right time, and imperfections aside, that song carries weight for its place in history, at least at the local Seattle level, if not nationally.
dsheinem wrote: But he's not a good one, by mine. I dislike him, in part, because I think his lyrics aren't so much speaking truth to power (which I find admirable in hip hop) as they are speaking guilt assuaging to white/straight audiences through borrowing enough signifiers from oppressed groups to "tactfully toe the line". It just seems so calculated and inauthentic, which are characteristics I don't like in genres of music that I associate as ideally experimental, risky, political, etc. in its sound/production and its lyrics.
I just don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this. See, I think Macklemore is bold in his rhymes. To start a rap with "When I was in third grade, I thought I was gay" is a risk when there is a fair amount of homophobia in the wider hip hop audience. I think being honest about his drug and alcohol abuse, relapse, and now abstinence is bold, when much of the wider hip hop audience would rather celebrate drinking and smoking weed. And yes, even touting the value of thrift shop clothes rather than expensive swag, is well, maybe not bold, but at least a smart cheeky maneuver. I think when he raps about white privilege, he's really trying to figure out what to do about it as a white rapper, not trying to self agrandize, but I guess only he knows his true motivations.
dsheinem wrote: I don't care how hard he's working on his tour or how his audiences respond to him. One can certainly value music on those grounds, but I generally don't hold those criteria in much esteem.
I bring up how hard he works not because I think it adds legitimacy to his musical artistic integrity, but to simply highlight that even though he has the white privilege working in his favor, he didn't have this whole rap career handed to him on a platter. He's been rapping since the early 2000's, but has been relatively unknown outside of Seattle for much of that time. It's only in the last year that he really blew up. People think he's just a candy rapper, but he paid his dues. Not to mention that he is an independent. This year's tour with fellow indies Talib Kweli and Big Krit is THE biggest independent hiphop music tour of all time. No one has ever taken it this far without a label behind them. White privelege? Yeah, it's there. But how can you escape it, really? But he's paid dues and the hard work is there in spades, so it's not like his success was spoon fed.
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Re: Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

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J T wrote: there is no one else with as recognizable a face making mainstream music about gay rights and gay marriage who is not gay themselves.
To start a rap with "When I was in third grade, I thought I was gay" is a risk when there is a fair amount of homophobia in the wider hip hop audience. I think being honest about his drug and alcohol abuse, relapse, and now abstinence is bold, when much of the wider hip hop audience would rather celebrate drinking and smoking weed.
But there are and have been many rappers - many of whom aren't white - who've rapped these same themes for a long time. And you are right, they haven't been popular, but that's kind of the point of the "white privilege" critique in this case and part of my claim that he offers a safe/whitewashed politics that allows him to create "anthems" for his mostly white/straight/middle class audience to sing along to. Where you see his songs affecting change, I see pre-existing, long fought for change that he's been able to cash in on through a very specific appropriation strategy that only someone in his position would be able to do.

So yeah, I don't think we're gonna see eye to eye on him. I can understand how/why you see him as you do, but I see him as evidence of genre sanitizing and political opportunism.
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Re: Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

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Wow, your view is so cynical to view him as an opportunistic parasite on a movement, rather than someone playing a part in that movement. That's so bitter and jaded. See, this is why I can't take that Spin article seriously as a piece of musical journalism. It's not music criticism, it's a negativistic fault finding mission. It's just the author ascribing self-serving intentions onto everything Macklemore does, like what would be done in a political smear campaign. It makes me sad really, not only as a Macklemore fan, but just as a human who cares about equality and civil rights issues. It is so hard to evoke any change in the straight white male majority not only because convincing the majority to give up their position of power is an obvious hard sell, but because when a majority member attempts change, all of his intentions are called into question and it is seen as insincere, self-serving, whitewashed, opportunistic, guilt assuaging, neo-liberal bullshit. Damn, I'm glad I'm not famous. I would crack under the steely eyed scrutiny of people that have decided to hate me.
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Re: Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

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TSTR wrote:
stickem wrote:If you like early triple 6, like tear da club up, another group in memphis called krucifix klan sound just like them. Or the main guy evil pimp. I'm not sure which group was first.
So the first Krucifix Klan song I found on YouTube ("9 Cocked") is slamming 808s and gunshot samples behind the Phantasm theme.

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Phantasm has to be the most sampled horror theme. I was blowing up my subs to this example 15 yrs ago.
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Re: Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

Post by Luke »

Mackelmore saw the unemployment rate rise, so he decided to exploit the value of the thrift shop, thus sky rocketing his career.

So he did something similar with gay rights since now it's a topic of interest and he wants to stay relevant. Did I get that right?

Pretty sure that's not what Dish means, but that's the message I'm getting.
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Re: Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

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J T wrote:when much of the wider hip hop audience would rather celebrate drinking and smoking weed.
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Re: Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

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noiseredux wrote:
J T wrote:when much of the wider hip hop audience would rather celebrate drinking and smoking weed.
Fantastic. Unable to play that in our country. I see what you did there though. Lol
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Re: Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

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stickem wrote: I see what you did there though. Lol
:D

Also - good call on Phantasm. I mean Mobb Deep have sampled it multiple times alone. I've actually spent tons of time looking for hip hop songs that sample horror scores, and honestly I think I'd agree that Phantasm pops up more than any other.
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Re: Hip Hop/Rap Fanatics Unite!

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It's usually a tossup between sampling/interpolating Phantasm and Halloween, I find.

I like songs about drinking and smoking weed, am I bad? I don't want to be bad, guys. :cry:
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