Nintendo Is Hurting :(

[dsheinem]

If Nintendo had named the WiiU the Wii2, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I think we would, actually. Initial excitement about hardware novelty carried the Wii to a large install base, widespread success, and the possibility for lots of interesting titles from lots of interesting developers. Still, nagging at the edges throughout its life (and evident in both the Wii's steep sales decline relative to its competitors in its last years and in its competitor's failures to find success with WiiSports-like titles) are the same issues I raised above - the hardware wasn't strong enough and/or Nintendo wasn't aggressive enough to create games that would push the boundaries of graphics, design, connectivity, or anything other than motion controls. They had many of the same problems with the Gamecube, frankly.

Again, this is a separate question from whether they make games that are good or fun - they clearly do. They just aren't a company that makes consoles where new ideas which are applicable to other platforms can still flourish.

[Flake]

New ideas clearly aren't that important to the customer base - the PS4 and Xbox1 developers stopped innovating at the console naming step. Nintendo's hardware is not its problem at all - it's the drought of software and the self fulfilling prophecies of 3rd party developers who blame Nintendo for their half assed efforts.

I can say with no hesitation that the WiiU is everything I have ever wanted in a video game console. It has the ease of use that the NES had, displays polygonal graphics as bright and colorful as the SNES was for me, has the multiplayer focus of the N64, a controller as comfortable as the Gamecube's, and the online and social components that I originally thought the WiiConnect24 would provide.

[dsheinem]

New ideas clearly aren't that important to the customer base - the PS4 and Xbox1 developers stopped innovating at the console naming step. Nintendo's hardware is not its problem at all - it's the drought of software and the self fulfilling prophecies of 3rd party developers who blame Nintendo for their half assed efforts.

I won't go into MS' problems, but I bought a PS4 at launch on the promise of more innovative and subsequently influential games like what the PS3 brought to the table. Sony has a recent history of stuff from devs like thatgamecompany, Naughty Dog, TeamIco, SuckerPunch, etc. that have been influential in areas of design - whether it be narrative design, graphics, etc. There's no reason to think the PS4 isn't well positioned to continue this trend.

I can say with no hesitation that the WiiU is everything I have ever wanted in a video game console. It has the ease of use that the NES had, displays polygonal graphics as bright and colorful as the SNES was for me, has the multiplayer focus of the N64, a controller as comfortable as the Gamecube's, and the online and social components that I originally thought the WiiConnect24 would provide.

That's fine, I understand that. But, unlike those consoles you mentioned, Nintendo isn't making games for the Wii U that are widely acclaimed as taking an innovative and (potentially) influential step in the evolution of the medium.

[Flake]

That innovation is not coming from Sony and Microsoft. It comes from the same 3rd party developers that say "WiiU releases never sell well" while at the same time delaying and short changing the WiiU versions of their products.

Sony and Microsoft do not get a pass simply because they can throw infinite amounts of money at any problem they have.

[ZeroAX]

Sony and Microsoft do not get a pass simply because they can throw infinite amounts of money at any problem they have.

Clearly you don't know how (justice in) capitalism works

[Retrogamer0001]

But, unlike those consoles you mentioned, Nintendo isn't making games for the Wii U that are widely acclaimed as taking an innovative and (potentially) influential step in the evolution of the medium.

Good lord, cut the system some slack, it's barely been out for a year yet. Also, what widely acclaimed, innovative, and influential games have we seen from the PS4 and XB1 up to this point? Absolutely nothing we didn't already have before both systems launched. Will we see a plethora of amazing games worthy of all those superlatives you just mentioned in the first year that the Wii-U so shamefully lacks? I seriously, seriously doubt it. So far we have:

The "definitive version" of Tomb Raider - a last gen game
Titanfall on Xbox One - also available on 360 and another COD clone
Knack - a piece of garbage by most accounts
Another iteration of Killzone - moar FPS plz, bro!
A bunch of racing and sports titles. Yippee.

Where is all this innovation and mind-warping influence you speak of?

[BoneSnapDeez]

It's going to take some seriously good Japanese games (like another Lost Odyssey or Demon's Souls) to make me even think about buying a PS4 or Xbone. And even then I'd wait until a price drop of $150 or more. All of this Western "AAA" stuff doesn't excite me in the slightest.

Wii U is the only one of the three that appeals to my tastes - good, clean, fun simple games that remind me of the retro titles I love. No eye of Sauron DRM, no "Share" button, and a price that's a fraction of its competitors. Plus, a great set of upcoming games. Wii U is the clear winner at this point, no doubt about it.

[dsheinem]

Where is all this innovation and mind-warping influence you speak of?

It isn't there yet. My point was that it is reasonable to think it will be there given Sony's recent history (esp in the last 10 years) and that it is also reasonable to think it won't be there on the Wii U given Nintendo's recent console history (esp. of the past 10 years).

I also don't think that "innovation and influence" in software is the be-all, end-all of why the PS4 and Xbox One sales are so rapidly closing the gap on the Wii U, but I think there's a segment of the audience that feels as I do about where to put their money: towards new software design ideas, new graphics, etc.

That innovation is not coming from Sony and Microsoft. It comes from the same 3rd party developers that say "WiiU releases never sell well" while at the same time delaying and short changing the WiiU versions of their products.

The developers I listed are all in-house Sony devs. As for MS, I think it is safe to say that Bungie did a lot more to influence gaming (and especially a genre) than any Nintendo developer has for console gaming since the N64. Nintendo developers used to wield that kind of influence.

[Flake]

(Regarding innovation)...that it is also reasonable to think it won't be there on the Wii U given Nintendo's recent console history (esp. of the past 10 years).

I'm sorry. I know sometimes you run towards the hyperbolic end of an argument in order to stoke a good discussion but how can you expect anyone to take a statement like that seriously?

[dsheinem]

(Regarding innovation)...that it is also reasonable to think it won't be there on the Wii U given Nintendo's recent console history (esp. of the past 10 years).

I'm sorry. I know sometimes you run towards the hyperbolic end of an argument in order to stoke a good discussion but how can you expect anyone to take a statement like that seriously?

It isn't hyperbolic at all. Outside of WiiSports, whose legacy is tied to a gameplay mechanic that is (for now) seen as gimmicky, faddish, and unsuccessful on other platforms, no one has named a post-N64 Nintendo-backed console game that has had a strong influence on the direction of the medium or even particular genres (in terms of storytelling, aesthetics, level design, mechanics, etc.). They used to churn those kinds of games out all the time.

And, again, I'm referring strictly to Nintendo software.