Random Thoughts Thread

[AppleQueso]

I just don't find nationalism very compelling at all.

This reminds me of a short documentary I watched a while back. It was about how as American nationalism. To be more exact, why we as a nation think we are cut from a superior cloth than the rest of the world. It was quite interesting to step back and take a look at how we think as a nation.

America is not alone in that way of thinking by a long shot.

I think it's probably safe to say that most countries (or well, most developed countries) have that sort of thing.

[BoringSupreez]

I'm not a racist. This term has become a common counter-attack against opinions that are not politically correct.

Holy crap is this true. At least half of the arguments I've seen between people of different colors involve the race card at some point, regardless what the disagreement was. The term "racism" is becoming a crutch for people who are on the factually weaker end of an argument, and sadly that takes away from issues where actual racism is present.

I stand by my comments about Roma gypsies, I have a very low opinion on their lifestyles and I have every right to. Most of our immigrants have done well integrating into our society but Roma gypsies doesn't make any real effort to do so, well most of them anyway. They send their kids onto the streets to steal and pickpocket, they hang around cash machines and they are a nuisance on the subway. I know as I and others has had unneeded encounters with them. They also leave trash everywhere, which results in rats coming back to some areas. They leech off the welfare system. The list goes on. We don't want Roma gypsies in our country, but we will welcome good Roma people, but not gypsies.

None of this is exaggeration.

You wouldn't want Roma gypsies moving into your neighbourhood bringing their filthy habits with them, would you? Get off your high horse.

With the exception of General_Norris, everyone disagreeing with you is an American who has most likely spent their entire life in the states. There is no real equivalent to a gypsy where they live. I don't mean to sound arrogant or whatever, but some things have to be seen first-hand, and they haven't. Reading about it on the internet is not the same.

[Erik_Twice]

Is the prejudice against Roma in Europe really a result of their behavior, or is their behavior more a result of the prejudice already against them?

The thing is that Roma/Gypsies have always been a good scapegoat so everytime a politician wants to bang the xenophobic drum, they are brought up. Using them as an excuse against inmigration, the European Union or just rampant bigotry is common in Britain and France.

Remember racism and fascism is on the rise in Europe because of the economic downturn, kicking those "filthy Roma" out of the country they have lived for years or centuries is a good way to boost your popularity.

This is not to say Roma/Gypsy culture(s) isn't incredibly fucked up. But when a minister claims that "Perhaps Hitler didn't kill enough of them" like it happened in France, you know it's pure and simple bigotry.

[alienjesus]

I'm not a racist. This term has become a common counter-attack against opinions that are not politically correct.

Holy crap is this true. At least half of the arguments I've seen between people of different colors involve the race card at some point, regardless what the disagreement was. The term "racism" is becoming a crutch for people who are on the factually weaker end of an argument, and sadly that takes away from issues where actual racism is present.

I stand by my comments about Roma gypsies, I have a very low opinion on their lifestyles and I have every right to. Most of our immigrants have done well integrating into our society but Roma gypsies doesn't make any real effort to do so, well most of them anyway. They send their kids onto the streets to steal and pickpocket, they hang around cash machines and they are a nuisance on the subway. I know as I and others has had unneeded encounters with them. They also leave trash everywhere, which results in rats coming back to some areas. They leech off the welfare system. The list goes on. We don't want Roma gypsies in our country, but we will welcome good Roma people, but not gypsies.

None of this is exaggeration.

You wouldn't want Roma gypsies moving into your neighbourhood bringing their filthy habits with them, would you? Get off your high horse.

With the exception of General_Norris, everyone disagreeing with you is an American who has most likely spent their entire life in the states. There is no real equivalent to a gypsy where they live. I don't mean to sound arrogant or whatever, but some things have to be seen first-hand, and they haven't. Reading about it on the internet is not the same.

I disagree with him. I'm British.

I feel this is a topic that needs to just end before anyone is further offended, whether that is intentional, warranted or otherwise.

[dsheinem]

I'm pretty sure that the British government isn't willingly and purposefully admitting "pickpockets" and anti-Western Islamic "fanatics" and that when you look at someone who is either Roma or Islamic and assume as much that you are being irrationally discriminatory and prejudice (if not "racist" per se). It's hate all the same, and it is a deplorable character trait.

[Luke]

Before my wife toured Eastern Europe she attended a mandatory seminar that addressed the overwhelming amount of pickpockets and thieves in the cities she would be attending. Tourists are easy targets and obviously it's a big enough problem that people have to be educated on the thieves techniques, which can be extreme.

The thieves are distraction artists, whether it be a cute lady flashing her breasts, a mob of toddlers, or a staged fight, these guys know what they're doing. I wouldn't be thrilled to see a camp of thieves being set up in my town.

Nor would I like to see a camp of carnies either, as I plain don't like carnivals. Come to think of it, I actually hate carnivals and fairs too. Love corn dogs, hate fairs.

[dsheinem]

It isn't because they are a race, it is because they are a group.

The problem is that you too often keep grouping all gypsies and pretty much all Roma people into one category of "filthy pickpocketing pimps of their own children" or similar. The "gypsy" culture is rich with its own (positive and unique) history and traditions that should absolutely be celebrated and welcomed (e.g. "gypsy" art, music, and dance) into any culture. All your posts smack of xenophobic paranoia and misplaced, sweeping prejudice. I don't have first hand experience with this particular group/groups of immigrants, but the hateful rhetoric is more or less beat for beat the same as what we encounter from bigots in the U.S.

Stricter background checks? Sure: excellent idea. But perhaps if the culture were more welcoming and accommodating of existing immigrants who have passed the checks that are already in place, you'd find that immigrant-related crime and most associated anti-British/Western sentiment would drop off precipitously. If I went somewhere and encountered people who hate me because of my country of origin or cultural identity, I'd be pretty inclined to say "fuck these people" too.

[Jmustang1968]

I think it is a bit far reaching to imply opponents of immigration are simply bigots. I can understand some of his frustrations. I have friends here who have foreign wives and struggle to get them visas and/or citizenship and they go about the process in a legal way whereas illegals seem to be behind a political force to give them a free pass. It would almost be easier for them to do it the illegal way, the only issue is that she has a technical career with a decent sized company.

Living in SA and Houston, I am very in tune with some of the burdens of Mexican immigration. I don't hate people of Mexican or hispanic descent, I interact with them daily, but that doesnt mean I dont want some immigration regulation and enforcement on illegals.

[dsheinem]

Just for the record, I never criticized Muslims and Romanis. I criticized Muslim extremists and Roma gypsies.

I just want to politely tell you that I think you're being a little naive.

The problem is that "extremists" and "gypsies" aren't equal adjectives. By hating "gypsies" as such, you are perpetuating a climate that creates most of the problems that you identify with unlawful immigrants.

[dsheinem]

I think it is a bit far reaching to imply opponents of immigration are simply bigots.

I didn't at all meant to imply that opponents of immigration are necessarily bigots, just that bigots are usually opponents of immigration.