Should These PS2 Games Be Considered "Hidden Gems"

[racketboy]

I'm trying to be a bit stricter about what I included on the PS2 Hidden Games post.
There are a number of great games that aren't really mainstream titles, but aren't really "hidden" either.
I'm thinking about having a "cult favorites" section at the top for the ones that are kinda "in between"

So my question is for the titles below, are they "mainstream", "hidden gems", or "in between"

Katamari Damacy/We Love Katamari
Shadow of Collosus
Ico
Physconauts
Okami
Beyond Good & Evil
Rez
Disgea Series
Maximo Series
Odin Sphere
Armored Core Series
Sly cooper Series
Viewtiful Joe Series
Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner
Yakuza
Killer 7
Guilty Gear Accent Core
Gitaroo Man
Red Faction
Ape Escape 2 & 3
Dark Cloud
R-Type Final
Gradius V

[Citizin]

There's a few mentioned that are very well known but not really played by many. A cult favorites might be a good idea but it would seem a bit redundant to some. I'd say keep the ones you have since they seem fine enough.

Maybe stick in Red Star? My copy finally arrived after 20 days of waiting :S It doesn't seem to be very popular and it is a quality beatemup/shooter.

[Pulsar_t]

Katamari Damacy/We Love Katamari - The games sold well. The fact Katamari was referenced on Colbert's show is telling.
Shadow of Colossus - According to vgchartz.com it sold over 700k units so it's definitely mainstream
Ico - It's less known than SotC. I'd say less than a quarter million units were sold. In-between?
Psyhconauts - This game performed quite poorly. Yet it is more known among gamers. Hidden gem it remains though
Okami - This game sold less than 300k units (est.) so yes hidden gem
Beyond Good & Evil - Again, hidden gem
Rez - This is an in-between. Its release on XBLA suggests moderate performance
Disgea Series - Hardly hidden gems, I'd go with in-between
Maximo Series - Hidden gem, definitely
Odin Sphere - Ditto
Armored Core Series - The fact they keep making AC games suggests they have a niche market for it
Sly cooper Series - This series is mainstream
Viewtiful Joe Series - Clover titles are automatically 'hidden gems'
Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner - Definitely a sleeper hit
Yakuza - This is mainstream in Japan..
Killer7 - Definitely a hidden gem
Guilty Gear Accent Core - Again, with fighting games continually losing popularity this is a hidden gem
Gitaroo Man - A hidden gem
Red Faction - This was a mega seller. Hardly hidden!
Ape Escape 2 & 3 - I'd say mainstream
Dark Cloud - It was overshadowed by its superior sequel (which sold much better too)
R-Type Final - Definitely a sleeper hit
Gradius V - Again, a sleeper hit

Racketboy what are the criteria though? Sales? Prevalence in gaming culture? I did take a quick at the numbers at vgchartz.com but it's hardly accurate to conduct research. However there are other non-empirical standards we could use. For example would you expect the average customer at Gamestop to have heard of most of these titles?

[MrPopo]

I'd say Ico is definately a hidden gem, as the only reason I even know what it was is that they once did a video game review on Toonami, way back when they were first showing Gundam Wing.

[Pulsar_t]

We simply had it too good with the last generation, but these sales figures are abysmal. Why blame publishers for releasing crap when gamers refuse to buy the good games? This reiterates the notion that "gamers" are an increasingly smaller group of enthusiasts.

[RackGaki]

I'll just list off the one's I consider more obscure or hidden.

Beyond Good & Evil
Gitaroo Man
Guilty Gear: Accent Core
Killer7
Maximo

I would say Okami and Ico are in between, everything else is mainstream. All of the games listed above had low print runs and a moderate niche following. The other games listed were far too popular to be true hidden gems... even Okami sold another 300,000 copies on the Wii. Accent Core only had 3,000 copies printed on the Wii (though more on the PS2), if I recall correctly (I'm trying to source this number right now).

[Scooter]

I thought Sphynx and Mister Mosquito are quite good and never get mentioned much.

[Pulsar_t]

Okami shifted 300,000 units on Wii? I'd love to check your source

[Anubis]

I also throw in a vote for Mr. Mosquito.
I'd also like to throw in a nomination for Ring of Red.

[corn619]

The Shadow Hearts and Shin Megami Tensei series never got the attention that the Final Fantasys did, but are every bit as good and in some respects better.