Dreamcast locking up or stuttering with burnt games

[Hobie-wan]

I keep reading about people saying that you shouldn't burn faster than 8x because the DC can't read any faster than that. However I'm not aware of any correlation between the write speed of a disc and the read speed of your drive. If I burn a disc at 52x and my DC can only read at 8x speeds it shouldn't matter.

The faster something is done, the sloppier it will be. Practice and better equipment can help, but doing a job slower will make it better even once you're beter at doing something. You can probably color in the lines much better and faster in a coloring book than when you were 6, but you'll still do a nicer job if you take 20 minutes instead of 2.

Not trying to be insulting by making an analogy with coloring, just that there's a groove on CDRs that the laser follows to burn the data pits as it goes.

[marurun]

● The DC used to read pressed discs and burns.

● Something happen the other day.

● Now it will only read pressed discs, but not those burns that worked before.

That's proof that the burns are harder to read than real discs. The fact that people tweak lasers to make burns read better is proof that burns are harder to read than real discs.

Yes, I would never argue that some CDRs aren't a little harder to read, but it is more often a function of the quality of the media and the structure of the data on the image than some inherent quality of all CDRs. TY and Mitsui gold CDRs are well-regarded for readability and can be better than some cheaply pressed discs.

Hell, I've read anecdotes (very much like this one) in which a system started having trouble reading certain original pressed discs and worked just fine (and more quietly and smoothly) with CDRs. Those anecdotes don't prove anything, however, much as this one doesn't.

Basically, if you want to keep your Dreamcast healthy, keep it clean, keep the motors greased, and don't use it for extremely long stretches where it will heat up a lot. Keep all your games, burns and originals, in good condition and scratch and dirt free. Store them vertically instead of horizontally. Burn using good-quality CDRs. Use images for burning that have good file order and are properly dummied. Burn your discs at the slowest available speed (16x is as good as 4x as long as your burner maintains a constant speed, which the lowest available setting SHOULD do). And when your system eventually dies, get a new one and keep gaming.

[Shogun]

I keep reading about people saying that you shouldn't burn faster than 8x because the DC can't read any faster than that. However I'm not aware of any correlation between the write speed of a disc and the read speed of your drive. If I burn a disc at 52x and my DC can only read at 8x speeds it shouldn't matter.

The faster something is done, the sloppier it will be. Practice and better equipment can help, but doing a job slower will make it better even once you're beter at doing something. You can probably color in the lines much better and faster in a coloring book than when you were 6, but you'll still do a nicer job if you take 20 minutes instead of 2.

Not trying to be insulting by making an analogy with coloring, just that there's a groove on CDRs that the laser follows to burn the data pits as it goes.

So I did some searching around about this subject and found exactly what you are talking about in an audio engineering article: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov04/a ... 1104-3.htm

Quite an eye opener for me. When I build my pc I always pick a cheap drive that is fast and has good reviews. Now I'm wondering if there are drives out there that offer precision over speed as that is more applicable to my uses.

[Hobie-wan]

Exactly. Even though data discs have more error correction to help ensure you get the data back, having to reread means more winding the laser back and forth, more refocusing, and more time that the laser is on. Maybe it is only a few extra minutes of your time during today's play session, but it still adds up.

[isiolia]

The faster something is done, the sloppier it will be. Practice and better equipment can help, but doing a job slower will make it better even once you're beter at doing something. You can probably color in the lines much better and faster in a coloring book than when you were 6, but you'll still do a nicer job if you take 20 minutes instead of 2.

Not trying to be insulting by making an analogy with coloring, just that there's a groove on CDRs that the laser follows to burn the data pits as it goes.

Main thing I would wonder with it is the point at which there's no real improvement. I'd think that, over time, improved burner tech would allow for precise writes at a speed faster than what was feasible a decade ago. Objectively, it's digital data. It doesn't need to be perfectly formed, just reliably discerned as a zero or one, so to speak.

Given how cheaper CD-R media (particularly) can fade relatively quickly, re-burning games every few years or so might be optimal as well.

[marurun]

I think the best way to preserve our consoles is not to use them. When the disc is spinning there are motors wearing down as they run. The motor that raises and lowers the laser to focus is also constantly adjusting. And chances are, if that disc is spinning the laser diode is also on generating heat. Your goods are best kept in boxes tightly sealed with plastic wrap and stowed away on shelves.

In all seriousness, however, I found this fascinating FAQ on-line which I am still digesting. One interesting point of note is the section on laser diode life. Seems good quality hardware has an extremely long diode life. Really cheap hardware, not so much at all. Most of the anticipated life of our CD-based consoles is going to come down to the decisions of the manufacturers. Did they choose CD assemblies and diodes more on the level of the common $40 DVD player or $10 portable CD player, or something a little closer to commercial-grade hardware?

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/cdfaq.htm

[flojocabron]

Ive not had a big new PC to do my dreamcast burning.

For years before my little netbook got stolen I used an external burner.

Luckily my compact dvd burner wasn't stolen. I've burned a ton of ps1 and dreamcast with them and its worked fine.

Mine is a pioneer DVR-XD09. Maybe because its portable, its not meant to be fast.

And i used both discjuggler and imgburn. At the slowest speeds with it.

Would finding one of these small burners solve our problems?

[marurun]

I have emailed the author of the massive CD drive repair FAQ I found, trying to be as polite and impartial in my inquiry as possible. Mostly, I want to know if the fear that CD-R use will drain the vital life juices of our precious ancient devices is technically grounded, or more superstition. I have no doubt that the author of that FAQ is far more knowledgeable of the actual likelihood of harm than ANY of us in this or previous discussions on this and related forums. Thus, I appeal to an expert.

[marurun]

Wow, Sam Goldwasser is super-fast at replying to stuff. Here is my email to him and his response. I have his permission to share his response with this forum. Given his expertise (here is his CV for those who would like to know) I think I am satisfied that CD-Rs prove no measurable risk to our hardware.

> I have a question about CD drive operations and longevity. The retro video
> game community has a pretty big divide right now. Many claim using CD-R
> discs in older system (pre-DVD, as recent as Sega's Dreamcase) is harmful
> to the lifespan of the systems. There are many anecdotes about such
> systems failing right after being used with a CD-R disc.
>
> As far as I can figure, the only impact a CD-R could have is that it would
> force the system to work a little longer if data reading is poor due to
> reduced reflectivity, meaning the seek motor will have to move the head
> around a little more and the focusing servo may have to make more
> adjustments to make up for failed attempts to read data. Further, the
> diode may have to spend a little more time on due to delays and adjustments
> by the motors trying to get a good read. But given the variable quality
> and condition of pressed discs, I cannot imagine this actually amounts to
> significant wear and tear.
>
> I cannot help but think that if a given CD drive can read the disc at all
> then any harmful impact on the system will be so minimal as to be
> insignificant. But, I am no expert in the operation of CD mechanisms(even
> after reading through your wonderful FAQ).
>
> So, is the CD-R paranoia justified? Should those of use with older CD-ROM-
> based video game consoles truly be wary of bringing doom upon our already
> aging hardware, or is it more likely that CD-R discs will not have a
> measurable impact on our livelihood?

Hi:

I'd pretty much go with your assessment. Perhaps if the hardware was already
about to fail, a CD-R could kick it over the edge, but if it's able to read
the CD-R, all the same sorts of effects will be present.

The servos may work a bit harder but so what, they are designed for that.

The laser diode may be on slightly longer but normally, the laser power is
not something that is controlled based on the media, so it's not working
harder.

The only effect a CD-R might have is that the surface layer is a lot less
robust than that of a CD. One can often peel it off with a finger nail.
So, a physically damaged CD-R might shed particles to gum up the works,
so-to-speak, but that is really stretching to realm of possibilities!

--- sam

[AppleQueso]

Well that's probably the closest thing to a definitive answer that anyone is going to get.

Still, don't use cheap media, burn slowly, you'll have better, more reliable results.