2014 Together Retro Calendar

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AppleQueso

Re: POLL: Together Retro 2014 Nominations & Discussion Thre

Post by AppleQueso »

Ack wrote: It wouldn't take much. Say we tell people to emulate a Star Wars-based video game, let's say...Super Star Wars.
Why would you need to tell anyone to do this?

Just mention the game, what ports its available on, encourage people to pick it up, and give the usual summary.

Saying "This month's Together Retro game is Super Star Wars, it is on the SNES" isn't endorsing emulation at all.
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Re: POLL: Together Retro 2014 Nominations & Discussion Thre

Post by Violent By Design »

AppleQueso wrote:
Ack wrote: It wouldn't take much. Say we tell people to emulate a Star Wars-based video game, let's say...Super Star Wars.
Why would you need to tell anyone to do this?

Just mention the game, what ports its available on, encourage people to pick it up, and give the usual summary.

Saying "This month's Together Retro game is Super Star Wars, it is on the SNES" isn't endorsing emulation at all.
Exactly, I don't see why emulation has to be mentioned. Emulation isn't an actual platform.
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Re: POLL: Together Retro 2014 Nominations & Discussion Thre

Post by mjmjr25 »

Not being a smart guy here. If that's the case (lawsuits, etc)...how do the dozens of rom sites exist...and get sponsors? The same big rom sites have been around for awhile and they advertise...they aren't hiding.

I don't like emulation personally, but I can't imagine it's a serious concern or all these rom and MAME sites wouldn't be flourishing? Maybe there's some trick i'm not seeing...?
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Re: POLL: Together Retro 2014 Nominations & Discussion Thre

Post by prfsnl_gmr »

Ack wrote:It wouldn't take much. Say we tell people to emulate a Star Wars-based video game, let's say...Super Star Wars. It only came out on the SNES and Virtual Console. And then Disney gets wind and sends us a cease-and-desist letter because we are telling people to violate their copyright and potentially providing a means to do so(such as someone linking a website that has a ROM). If we fail to comply within the amount of time they specify, they can take us to court(and it being Disney, they would too).

From then on, we regularly accrue legal costs as a pitiful handful of average guys from a variety of backgrounds go up against the full weight of Disney's legal department. It doesn't matter if we have a chance to win, Disney will keep doing whatever they can to prolong the fight, because we'll be hemorraging money while we do it. If we win in a timely manner, they'll do their best to delay and appeal. They know how to do this because they have plenty of experience. That's how most major corporations win legal battles, and a rich and soulless empire like Disney would be more than happy to do it to little guys like us.
I don't think it would work out like that...The damage to the Star Wars brand by recommending that someone play Super Star Wars (or linking to a ROM of the game for that matter) would be so insignificant that it would not be worth the legal fees associated with sending a cease-and-desist letter (much less the legal fees associated with a civil action).

In these circumstances, I also think that there would be an issue as who would be enititled to send such a letter. Would it be Disney, who currently holds the rights to all Star Wars movies, music, etc.? Or, would it be the Super Star Wars' developer, who probably holds the copyright to the game's code? Finally, would it be the game's publisher, who probably has the exclusive right to distribute the game in North America? I don't know the answers to these questions, and I suspect it would cost a lot of money to figure them out...
mjmjr25 wrote:Not being a smart guy here. If that's the case (lawsuits, etc)...how do the dozens of rom sites exist...and get sponsors? The same big rom sites have been around for awhile and they advertise...they aren't hiding.

I don't like emulation personally, but I can't imagine it's a serious concern or all these rom and MAME sites wouldn't be flourishing? Maybe there's some trick i'm not seeing...?
It costs a lot of money to do anything about them, and in many cases, it probably is not worth it. (I love old arcade games as much as anyone, but honestly, the value of some of these dated IPs is not worth the cost of sending a cease-and-desist letter, much less the cost of a full-blown legal action.) Also, people hosting ROM sites are probably judgment proof, and the copyright holder could only really obtain injunctive relief. (So, basically, the copyright holder would end up spending a bunch of money and the only thing it would receive in return is an order directing the ROM hosting site to take down the offending file.) Finally, there are a lot of ROM hosting sites located on servers overseas, and it would be nearly impossible (and incredibly expensive) to enforce any order forcing one of those sites to shut down.

EDIT: As discussed above, I also suspect that there are a lot of issues related to the standing of corporate entities to enforce the copyrights on these old games...I mean who would you get a cease-and-desist letter from if you were pirating one of Jaleco's old games?
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Re: POLL: Together Retro 2014 Nominations & Discussion Thre

Post by Ack »

Disney recently began filing copyright claims on YouTube over Super Star Wars gameplay videos and music, so I wouldn't put anything past them right now while they assert control over that property. But they aren't the only company that does this. I've seen websites and services go down over Squaresoft, Blizzard, and Electronic Arts ROMs before too. Hell, wasn't it Underground Gamer that got shutdown over a FIFA ROM from 1994?

Anyway, mjmjr, to answer your question, games are effectively ROMs to begin with: computer programs on a piece of physical media which can be read by a specialized machine. An emulator is just a program which behaves like that particular machine. So a SNES emulator just acts like it is a physical SNES as far as a SNES ROM is concerned. All it takes is some kind of hardware to connect to the physical media to pull over the game's files.

As for emulator sites, a)depending on the advertiser, they may not care or understand what sites they are selling on, b)the hosting sites for ROMs may go under the radar of various companies, c)the copyrights of hosted materials may be in some nebulous state where no one is sure of the owner, d)the website may be hosted in a different state, region, or nation where it has legal protections or clout(such as The Pirate Bay or servers in the microstate of Sealand), e)it may not be financially sound to pursue legal action. Others may change names or drop offending ROMs when questioned.

As for emulation, sure, we don't have to mention them. But then someone else will complain that we are picking something which they cannot access. Management of these kinds of programs generally starts as trying to offer a program that the masses can enjoy, but end up regulating around how much people are complaining. If we pick titles with limited release, some of you will complain and some will likely tout methods that are legally questionable. So to avoid this, we try to focus on games that are easier to access over mulrltiple platforms and regions. The end result? You're complaining that we don't pick games with limited(and potentially illegal) accessibility.

How about we play that Elder Scrolls N-Gage game? And December can be Casio Loopy month!
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Re: POLL: Together Retro 2014 Nominations & Discussion Thre

Post by BoneSnapDeez »

Ack wrote:And December can be Casio Loopy month!
I'd be down. It would bring more ladies to the site.
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Re: POLL: Together Retro 2014 Nominations & Discussion Thre

Post by pierrot »

mjmjr25 wrote:I don't care which games people nominate, which platforms, or ultimately what ends up picked - simply pointing out that "everyone" is an assumption and inaccurate.
Indeed. I own not a box with the Windows Disease. As much as I'm intrigued by some of the PC games being nominated.


About Monster World: I think they're all great games, but III (or "Wonder Boy in Monster World") has a mechanic where walking speed is tied to upgrades in "sock" armor, and I could see it deterring people from the game rather early on if they aren't fans of the style of game to begin with. I'd love to play IV again for TR, but I think either the original, or probably Dragon's Trap/Dragon's Curse would be best suited for a TR month.
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Re: POLL: Together Retro 2014 Nominations & Discussion Thre

Post by Nemoide »

PSO vs. FFXI
Even though most of my posts in this thread have been in support of FFXI, I'd be totally on board with PSO with ONE BIG CAVEAT: how easy is online play these days? I have zero interest in everyone playing this offline, but if I can get my Dreamcast version to connect to a private server to play with folks... THAT COULD BE PRETTY FANTASTIC. But DC broadband adapters are friggin' expensive and I think it's safe to assume most folks don't have dial-up.

I guess that means Blue Burst will be the only option? Is it possible for PC players to play with Dreamcast or Gamecube players? I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW PRIVATE SERVERS WORK WITH PSO!
(I wish this game was on XBLA and PSN.)
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Re: POLL: Together Retro 2014 Nominations & Discussion Thre

Post by BoneSnapDeez »

Actually PSO may be the best choice as folks can choose to play online or offline.......?

Just a thought.
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Re: POLL: Together Retro 2014 Nominations & Discussion Thre

Post by SpaceBooger »

I did not mean to bring up the emulation argument again. I am just sharing my opinion that I don't think the multi port idea is important. If someone wants to play a game they will play it however they want to play it.
If we took up the sarcastic idea of having a N-Gage game, I would not join that month. It would be my choice. I don't think we have to conform to the masses, if we did this site would be like the gamefaq forums. We are a quality forums and I think we should pick quality games, quality games that we feel really should be played. If we vote in this thread about the TR games, I don't think those who don't have an N-Gage would vote for games on that system.
Anyway, the point of my post was not to debate emulation, but instead discuss in a respectful manner the idea of multi port games.
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