Discussion on Welfare and other Social Programs

[marurun]

And no, I have absolutely no sympathy for those that are UNWILLING to work.

According to the following source a significant number of welfare recipients either work or are trying to / preparing for work. Further, being poor enough to be on welfare makes it extremely hard to get a job. Many places won't hire you if you don't have a phone number or reliable transportation. So if you can't afford a car and can't afford to live someplace that gets reliable train or bus service, you're kinda screwed. Poverty really stacks the deck against those on welfare.

http://www.urban.org/publications/310835.html

Unfortunately far too many people abuse the system.

As has been mentioned before, there is no data out there to support this assertion. All research into the matter has pegged fraud and abuse of the system fairly low, making up a miniscule portion of all benefits that are paid out. If you intend to stand by that assertion I'm going to have to ask you to back it up with something concrete.

Like I said, in my state more people are on welfare than are employed. If that isn't proof enough, I don't know what is.

That map you say shows that there are more people on welfare than are employed is from a highly flawed OPINION article that ran in Forbes that performed some insanely questionable fiddling of the numbers. Here's where it is thoroughly debunked:

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stateme ... le-welfar/

Further, even if California DID have more people on welfare than who were employed, that STILL doesn't demonstrate that the system is plagued with fraud or abuse. There are a number of factors that could explain that fictional state of more people on welfare than on employment rolls that don't include fraud or abuse of the system.

I'll say it again. You want to keep asserting that the welfare system is plagued by persistent and crippling fraud and abuse, you need to offer up some reliable, verifiable information that proves it. You have thus far done anything but.

[AppleQueso]

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stateme ... le-welfar/

Ha ha beat you to it

[BurningDoom]

Come to Redding, CA if you want proof first-hand.

http://www.redding.com/news/2012/nov/17 ... of-choice/

Combine the fact that California's Central Valley is the meth capital of the world, with the fact that more people are on welfare than employed. And what do you think the problem is?

Like I said, this is in my area. I don't speak for the whole nation. I see it all around me here, all the time. It's as plain as day here. You don't need data to see it. I can look across the street and see people tweeking from my window half the time.

And again, no, I don't feel sorry for people unwilling to work, nor do I feel sorry for meth addicts. If they have money to buy drugs, then they have money to eat. If I can't get a job because I have a dirty drug-test, then they shouldn't get money if for the same reason. Those that aren't abusing the system should have nothing to worry about.

[marurun]

I just saw this on ABC News last night. I don't think they have a habit of reporting false news. I just happened to be watching it, when I normally don't, because I got rid of cable and was watching the local channel last night.

Dude, actually READ the Politifact rebuttal. It tears this apart. I don't care if it was on ABC news, wrong is wrong. If Einstein uttered something that turned out to be incorrect, it wouldn't matter that it came out of Einstein's mouth.

[dsheinem]

good to see we've added drug addict-shaming to poor-shaming in this thread. also saw some almost racist stuff.

good thread.

[marurun]

Since this thread has my name as the OP, I suggest we rename this "The silly argument thread where people argue for no reason and provide no solutions to their own arguments" thread.

Unfortunately, I don't agree that this is a silly argument. This is an issue of critical import right now, especially in light of the imbalanced nature of our fiscal recovery. I also argue not for no reason, but rather because this is an important issue, and because it's important, when discussing topics like this that tap so deeply into our beliefs about how the world is and should be, we need to be attempting to put some of our emotions and misconceptions aside and start looking for data. Information is what sets us free.

[BurningDoom]

good to see we've added drug addict-shaming to poor-shaming in this thread. also saw some almost racist stuff.

good thread.

I should feel ashamed because I don't feel drug-addicts should get free handouts while they get high while I have to work for my money?

[marurun]

Combine the fact that California's Central Valley is the meth capital of the world, with the fact that more people are on welfare than employed. And what do you think the problem is?

How does combining drugs with incorrect data on welfare result in a problem any bigger than "Damn, that's a serious drug problem"?

[Fragems]

The thing that kills me is with Obama Care in effect a lot of people in the service industries are having their hours cut so their employers can advert having to pay for benefits.

Had one elderly woman the other day discussing how she had been an employee at Bob Evans for 20 years and they just recently cut her hours back and dropped her benefits. She was now having to pick up a second job at Krogers just so she could afford her medication. I have heard multiple stories like this recently at the courthouse where I am interning and it flat out pisses me off.

It's nice to know that the working class of America is non-essential. At least that is how I feel after all the BS that has been going on recently.

Here is a story with a list of a few of the employers that have been confirmed as cutting employees hours back .

http://news.investors.com/politics-obam ... s-jobs.htm

All this does is make it even more difficult for lower income families to support themselves. It's not like anyone was already having to work 2+ jobs to get by .

[BurningDoom]

Combine the fact that California's Central Valley is the meth capital of the world, with the fact that more people are on welfare than employed. And what do you think the problem is?

How does combining drugs with incorrect data on welfare result in a problem any bigger than "Damn, that's a serious drug problem"?

And how many welfare recipients do you think are gonna admit to that? And I did mention a source, ABC News. If that doesn't count as a legitimate source, I don't know what does. The pic I got I used Google search to try and see if I could find the same map I saw on the news report last night, and it was. I have no affilation with the site it came from nor did I realize where I was pulling it from.


Like I said, it's plain as day from in my area. You can easily spot a heavy meth-user. They're plenitful here, as are people on welfare.

My mom was one of them on welfare. I grew up in a welfare house. In her case, she was legitimate, though. She wasn't a meth user, and the reason she was on welfare was because she was a single-mom and my brother is severely disabled and needed 24//7 care as a child. (This is what led me to my job today, I teach disabled adults basic computer skills for an employment program). Cases like this, or legitimately being unemployed while looking for a job, I have no problem with.

But being aorund that, I saw all the tweekers when my mom would take me to the welfare office. The friends I had in my neighborhood were from such families. And I can still see the meth-heads around town all the time.

Again, I speak only for my area. I can't speak for the rest of the nation, I don't keep up with that because frankly I don't care.

I just wanted to expand and clairify what I said because things seem to be cherry picked from the original post.