So Thief 4 anybody?

[Wispmage]

He probably could not handle all the capture work. Its a shame though, since he is the Thief.

Yup, this is why. Eidos stated that they wanted to use the same actor for voice and motion capture, and Stephen Russel wasn't up for the mo-cap apparently. I had mixed feelings about the trailer as well, mostly stemming from the last 30 seconds. However, despite my misgivings about the fast pace and intense focus on action over stealth, I realize that a slow, stealthy trailer wouldn't be very entertaining or appeal to a wider audience.

[Pulsar_t]

http://www.thedarkmod.com/

Once the site is back up, check out the 2.0 release of TDM.

[Xeogred]

^ There's always that. I had trouble getting used to the blackjack in that though haha.

That sucks about the mo-cap and now I do remember people bringing that up and arguing about it... which I was in agreement that, it shouldn't even be necessary in the first place. His face could have just been in the shadows of his cloak and if they needed cutscenes, that weird style they had going in the earlier games would have been nice to see again. This also worries me if there's going to be cutscenes in level, or 3rd person actions and panning out... which also defeats the point of Thief to me. Any of that 3rd person stuff in a game like this would just completely pull me out of his shoes. I got over it in Deus Ex HR, but never really came to like it.

Who knows.

[Menegrothx]

Why do they need motion capture in a Thief game? I don't see why they should move away from the animation style they used in the previous games during the cutscenes. And if there's going to be cutscenes during the stages, that's just another sign that it's not going to be a good sequel.

Looks bad so far

My reaction was the opposite

Played the originals? Not only is the action tone a bad sign, the voice acting was just bad there.

[Stark]

Looks bad so far

My reaction was the opposite

Played the originals? Not only is the action tone a bad sign, the voice acting was just bad there.

I have played, beaten, and loved the originals and I also thought the trailer looked great.

Voice Acting: Seemed fine to me, both from Garrett and the guy that gives him quests. No complaints here.

Action Tone: Not sure what you mean here. Most of the first part of the trailer is him doing the same things you do in every Thief game (pickpocket, water arrows, hide in the shadows). You have that one take down, but then he gets the hell out of there. Same as old Thief. You didn't have to fight and were encouraged not to, but that didn't mean you couldn't at all. And I'm not sure why you would have a problem with him having a burning building come down around him, that's just a setting thing.

[Phades]

Why do they need motion capture in a Thief game? I don't see why they should move away from the animation style they used in the previous games during the cutscenes. And if there's going to be cutscenes during the stages, that's just another sign that it's not going to be a good sequel.

Looks bad so far

My reaction was the opposite

Played the originals? Not only is the action tone a bad sign, the voice acting was just bad there.

Yep, I've played the first three extensively. I was always a fan of games from Looking Glass. It looks a bit different, but then so did Deus Ex HR and the new Tomb Raider. I still think it looks great. It's supposed to be a reboot so I'd expect they'd change a few things.

[Xeogred]

On the plus side the settings look amazing. They better not have a single level in daylight, that'll be awful haha. So hopefully not. I'm still not huge on Garret looking a bit lankier and kind of ninja-esque, but yeah. Visually, I really like what I see.

Others have a good point that the trailer needs to be explosive for more viewers, so there's that. Let's hope the main portion of the game is more toned down and subtle.

I really wish they could have brought back the original composer too though... nothing else quite like the music in the originals. Some of the best ambiance ever.

[Menegrothx]

Voice Acting: Seemed fine to me, both from Garrett and the guy that gives him quests. No complaints here.

You can't seriously claim that there's nothing wrong with the way he delivered the lines at 1:49 and 1:55. The pacing issue might partially be caused by the trailer, but still if he's supposed to be Garrett, he talks too fast and the tone of his voice lacks the characteristics that made Garrett such a well liked character. I didn't have any problem with Adam Jensen's voice acting in Deus Ex Human Revolution, so I'm not resenting him just because he's not the same guy as in the originals.

Action Tone: Not sure what you mean here. Most of the first part of the trailer is him doing the same things you do in every Thief game (pickpocket, water arrows, hide in the shadows). You have that one take down, but then he gets the hell out of there. Same as old Thief. You didn't have to fight and were encouraged not to, but that didn't mean you couldn't at all. And I'm not sure why you would have a problem with him having a burning building come down around him, that's just a setting thing.

1. Lock picking mini game=You don't need to worry about your surroundings when picking locks.
2. The Arkham Asylum/Dishonored style super hero take downs. Games today are so keen on "empowering the player", the bad thing is that it ruins the athmosphere and challenge in a stealth game, when the purpose of the game is to make the player weak and scared of engaging with enemies. Having takedowns in a stealth game is like having unlimited ammo for your revolver/shotgun/grenade launcher in Resident Evil 1.
You could easily kill enemies in the originals, but it required strategy and often limited resources. Pushing the I win button does not. Yes the effect is same as using the blackjack, but the blackjack does not take you out from first person view (=kill immersion), and you still need to aim your hit right and use stealth in order to successfully knock out an enemy with it. I also don't like the introduction of quick time leaps (1:23) because that's a feature that to certain degree makes the game easier and less suspenseful. Simply put: quick time events suck.
3. Shit ton of explosions. Thief games were about staying undetected and leaving as little evidence behind as possible. Explosions and breaking stuff up goes completely against the idea that no one should notice that you even entered the building before it's too late (you've stolen all the valuables and escaped by the time they notice it).
Scripted action sequences of any kind don't belong in a Thief game. Again it kills immersion if in a game that's supposed to be about emergent gameplay there's suddenly a completely scripted action sequence that's same every time you play the game.
4. Third person view scenes: Not so evident here as in the screenshots earlier, but nevertheless they kill immersion and turn stealth into a joke.

Also one minor inconvenience: I don't like the puff of smoke that appears when he steals stuff in the trailer. Wtf is that about? Again, another element that helps to ruin the mood.


These features weren't such a big problem in Human Revolution (but they still were flaws in an otherwise good game) as Deus Ex was never a full blown stealth game, but they hurt Thief a lot more since that's all there is to the series.

[Stark]

Voice Acting: Seemed fine to me, both from Garrett and the guy that gives him quests. No complaints here.

You can't seriously claim that there's nothing wrong with the way he delivered the lines at 1:49 and 1:55.

Sure I can. See this video at the 3:15 mark and tell me that's any different. Seems the same to me and I like it.

Action Tone: Not sure what you mean here. Most of the first part of the trailer is him doing the same things you do in every Thief game (pickpocket, water arrows, hide in the shadows). You have that one take down, but then he gets the hell out of there. Same as old Thief. You didn't have to fight and were encouraged not to, but that didn't mean you couldn't at all. And I'm not sure why you would have a problem with him having a burning building come down around him, that's just a setting thing.

1. Lock picking mini game=You don't need to worry about your surroundings when picking locks.

You don't know that this is the case. Maybe there are audio cues that tell you you're being approached. This is a trailer, you can't say how the mechanics will actually work.

2. The Arkham Asylum/Dishonored style super hero take downs. Games today are so keen on "empowering the player", the bad thing is that it ruins the atmosphere and challenge in a stealth game, when the purpose of the game is to make the player weak and scared of engaging with enemies.

There is nothing that indicates you have to play the game this way. Your version of Garrett is never seen, then play that way.

Having takedowns in a stealth game is like having unlimited ammo for your revolver/shotgun/grenade launcher in Resident Evil 1.
You could easily kill enemies in the originals, but it required strategy and often limited resources. Pushing the I win button does not. Yes the effect is same as using the blackjack, but the blackjack does not take you out from first person view (=kill immersion), and you still need to aim your hit right and use stealth in order to successfully knock out an enemy with it.

Again, this is a trailer and the way it is cut does not indicate for sure that you hop on a guy and press a button and he's taken down. There is clearly a cut in the action for the trailer's sake. I don't see how you can judge this accurately until you play the game.

I also don't like the introduction of quick time leaps (1:23) because that's a feature that to certain degree makes the game easier and less suspenseful. Simply put: quick time events suck.

It's hard to say exactly what happens there, but it doesn't really seem like a QTE, which even if it is, I don't have a problem with.

3. Shit ton of explosions. Thief games were about staying undetected and leaving as little evidence behind as possible. Explosions and breaking stuff up goes completely against the idea that no one should notice that you even entered the building before it's too late (you've stolen all the valuables and escaped by the time they notice it).

This all seems part of a problem, that seems to be independent of Garrett's actions, but it's hard to tell for sure. This bridge is burning down and you have to get to the other side. Sounds exciting to me.

Scripted action sequences of any kind don't belong in a Thief game. Again it kills immersion if in a game that's supposed to be about emergent gameplay there's suddenly a completely scripted action sequence that's same every time you play the game.

Again, you're judging a game based on a trailer. Sure, maybe if you try and get across the bridge that way, it results in a scripted action sequence, but who's to say that is the only way to get across?

4. Third person view scenes: Not so evident here as in the screenshots earlier, but nevertheless they kill immersion and turn stealth into a joke.

I don't see this as killing immersion. I also don't think the original intent was for immersion, it was because that was the capabilities of the engine. I doubt you could even go up to a mirror in Thief because Garrett wasn't even rendered.

[Ack]

There was some mention on the RPS article about this trailer that it may fall into a typical trap for stealth games, where it shows the action-packed parts as opposed to the stealth action that takes up most of the gameplay.