Getting back into Magic the Gathering

[Erik_Twice]

Getting back on topic, I want to buy some common and uncommon sets from my favourite expansions to play draft but I don't really have anyone to play with so I haven't bought a single card yet.

For some reason I really want to play Mirage. It has that classic feel that I really appreciate. Which shouldn't be surprising given it was supposed to be a replacement core set.

[Ivo]

I think there are tools online that can generate random packs and so on.

Mirage is not very good to draft by a modern standard (no pun intended, but I noticed it now). They released it online a while ago with drafts and they weren't very popular. One of the issues was Kaervek's torch (spelling?) is either at common or uncommon.

[dunpeal2064]

I recall reading that Mirage was the first time that WotC designed a set around sealed play. Ice Age was sold as a standalone to be played this way, but Mirage was actually designed for it.

So, I went to my first post-Theros standard tournament on Thursday, piloting a B/U/W Control deck that I built over the weekend. Having only played an aggressive deck, I made far too many mistakes, but still had a great time and learned a lot.

I want to throw out there that, although this game can be a money sink, it is far from true that whoever invests the most money wins. I saw some cool homebrews that were actually competitive, and of course the classic RedDeckWins that can be built for under $100, easily.

Just don't build B/U/W Control if you want to save money.

[TEKTORO]

I started playing with revised first I think back in 1994, had my spurts here and there all the way up till 2007. I loved creating top tier original decks for local tournaments FNM, my highlights were playing a Tooth & Nail deck (Green) and Wild Mongrel Madness Deck (Green/Blue). I still have a deck list I came up with (long time ago) abusing the card Null Profusion and zero cost artifacts and a cheap costing spell with the storm ability to either ping or deck your opponent infinitely by turn 2-4 standard play (at that time).

I actually collect video games now that are trading card based since I will never be able to have time to play local any more, you'd be surprised how many console/handheld games that are out there.

[Ivo]

I want to throw out there that, although this game can be a money sink, it is far from true that whoever invests the most money wins. I saw some cool homebrews that were actually competitive, and of course the classic RedDeckWins that can be built for under $100, easily.

I don't think you are describing it clearly. Even though a good player with a weaker deck can often beat a bad player with one of the top decks, you are giving up statistical efficiency if you don't put the money in (or borrow the cards). And in tournaments with prizes on the line, you are guaranteed to be playing against good players with good decks after winning a couple of rounds (that is, if you haven't faced them in the first few rounds and been blown out of the water by their stronger deck, even if you were a bit of a better player).

It is true that you can often do well with "budget" versions or with different decks that rely mostly on Commons/Uncommons / have no mythic rares, and skill plays a strong role in the game - but make no mistake, you are almost certainly giving up a competitive advantage.

Given it is a card game where the decks are randomized, it is not a pure game of skill and you are always dependent on chance, so giving up a competitive advantage because you won't or can't pay for the best cards is foolish. Play another game instead where there are no "pay to win" components.

The best decks in practically all formats are certainly worth a good chunk of change almost by design (when Rares weren't cutting it anymore, they introduced Mythics, starting by saying that certain types of "utility cards" weren't going to be Mythic, but that lasted about one block IMO and it was particularly clear in the first core set after Mythics were introduced).
This is part of their business model - I don't begrudge them for it (although it irks me they aren't always as upfront about it as I would prefer) as they do make a very good game, and the salaries of their R&D people are funded through this (the artwork is also top notch, although personally I don't care so much about that).

[Erik_Twice]

It's not "pay to win", it's a barrier of entry.

If you want to compete in constructed Magic play, you are going to have to spend a good chunk of money, normally several hundred dollars, depending on what format you play.

[Ivo]

It's not "pay to win", it's a barrier of entry.

If you want to compete in constructed Magic play, you are going to have to spend a good chunk of money, normally several hundred dollars, depending on what format you play.

It is "pay to win" under a very reasonable definition of "pay to win".
Most "pay to win" games are also "barrier of entry" under your definition.
Do you only consider it "pay to win" if the "paying" is not capped at a maximum?

[dunpeal2064]

The deck that just won the most recent Grand Prix can be built for under $100, and competed against many top-tier players piloting pricey decks.

I'm not saying build a weak cheap deck, I am saying that there are top tier options right now in Standard that are not expensive. I did not mention weak player in there at all, so not sure where that came from?

I hardly think the game is "pay-to-win". When Someone brought "Eggs" to Modern, a fairly expensive format, the deck was very affordable to build, was not an already established archtype, and whooped ass. Its just that most people just go and build what they think has already been deemed the strongest deck, and dump a bunch of money into it.

It is true that, if you are not willing to put very much money into the game, that you will not be able to compete, but that price range is not much more than some of us spend on one or two games. You don't have to build a $500 deck, as has just been proven by RDW taking out the 5 Control decks that ended up in top 8

[Ivo]

The deck that just won the most recent Grand Prix can be built for under $100, and competed against many top-tier players piloting pricey decks.

I'm not saying build a weak cheap deck, I am saying that there are top tier options right now in Standard that are not expensive. I did not mention weak player in there at all, so not sure where that came from?

It is correct that historically there are decks that are fairly cheap at the top tier, usually because they run a lot of commons and uncommons. A poster mentioned UG madness above, that was one good example. Affinity was another one, depending on the builds. The most recent example I can think of was Delver of secrets, but I wasn't paying much attention during that time already.

But there are also historically formats where the top decks are rather pricey, ad nowadays it seems you often get top tier decks loaded up on Mythics that were intentionally "pushed" to risky power levels by R&D (they admit to pushing some cards on purpose to build excitement - they are often set-defining cards).

I may be a bit of a cynic, but I think that when that happens R&D slipped up and underestimated the power of some common or uncommon cards (or mechanics that appear at those rarities). Wild Mongrel and the madness cards, Aether Vial, the artifact lands and the affinity cards (and don't get me started with Skullclamp).

I don't keep up any more, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a deck worth 100 bucks that was top tier in Standard. I think it is fair to point out this is not the usual situation, but it does happen from time to time.

You don't have to build a 500 deck to compete, but then you may have to opt out of formats in times where those are the only real competitive options. I think people willing to do that will be rewarded with a very good game, but I think people should go in well informed.

[dunpeal2064]

That is true, it does change up, and because a new set just came out, it is usually pretty common to see a cheap, fast Red deck taking first, since no one knows the meta game, thus making the midrange and control decks harder to play. (How do you control when you don't know what to control? Lol). When players figure out what is going to be played, and a Control deck starts dominating, then you will either have to find a way to beat that deck, or drop the big $$ and play it.

I will say that the game does cost more now that Mythics are a thing. When I last played (before getting into it again recently), I recall the big players like Dark Confidant being about $12, and the most expensive cards being $20 (In Standard). It is odd how many cards now are at or over the $30 range, and it is completely an R&D thing So, I can't completely disagree with you, but I think it at least isn't entirely about how much money you've put in.

I am mostly talking about Standard here. I am not too familair with Modern yet, but I know the average price of entry there is about $500, and there is no reason, in any deck, to not run the "fetchlands", which is where a good chunk of that price comes from. I think that a good Standard deck can be built for around $200 though.