If PC game piracy is so bad..

[Niode]

You're assuming that the majority of pirates have both a 360 AND a high end gaming PC, and they just choose whichever gets leaked first. That's just not true. There's no reason to own both. 360 and PC have more in common than any other existing pair of platforms. Who in their right mind would pay for both paths? You'd have to have money falling out of your ass, and if you did, you wouldn't be pirating in the first place. Stop defending consoles. It's that kind of fucked perception that started all this.

Erm... I own a high end gaming system AND a 360 (Killer Apps anyone?). Besides you can't really argue with that point, people would pirate the pc version if it was available. You are talking about a particular game that isn't available to be pirated. Obviously that is going to be highly pirated. Last month the highest pirated game was Spore. That's not available for another platform (in it's purest form, im not talking about the DS or iPhone versions) so the argument is moot.

You can't compare download stats for a game that is simply not available to be pirated on a different system. That's just manipulation of numbers for no real reason. You can't support your argument with that.

Stop defending consoles. It's that kind of fucked perception that started all this.

I never said I was defending consoles. I'm not saying either system is more pirated than the other. I'm merely pointing out why your argument is flawed.

All this year and even some before it, 360 piracy has been rivaling or even bypassing PC piracy, (just like the two PlayStations before it) and I want people to finally open their eyes to the god damned numbers. I'm not some defender of the PC platform. I just cant stand when any kind of misconception gets spread out universally, reported as fact, and used as a scapegoat by idiot big wigs who can't accept responsibility for their product tanking.

I don't necessarily agree with the whole 'piracy is killing the PC' business. It's bullshit. Games have always been pirated on PC. Just as much as it was in the dawn of the internet. Just as much before even then. Piracy is rife in any high end media. IF there is a way to copy media. Somebody will do it and make money out of it. It's that simple.

I'm not trying to disagree with you Moz, I'm trying to point out that the numbers in this particular case are flawed. There's no apple to apples comparison here.

With the advent of faster and faster internet connections. People can download games even 9GB~ size downloads are a piece of cake for most common users these days. Taking a couple of days max on even the most modest of connections. That's just in the UK. Places like Sweden where piracy is rife scoff at the connections we get. My Swedish friend has had a 10mbps at least asymetric line for as long as i've known him (i've known him for about 6/7 years now) and he pays peanuts for it. He recently upgrades to 20mbps. If he gets a decent seed ratio on a torrent he can have 10GB downloaded in a matter of hours.

Piracy will get worse. The numbers are going to increase regardless of platform. So I'm not even sure this argument even means anything in the long run.

[Mozgus]

How is my argument flawed? You mentioned just two games that you think cant be compared under current circumstances. Did you even look at the list? Look at all the 360 games topping the piracy charts. You dont need to use my picture as an example. Go to any torrent site. Just sort by seeders. It's that easy.

Furthermore, Spore was a fucking given. EA shot themselves in the foot. They might as well go on a mic and announce to the world that the retail copy was inferior, and suggest that we just pirate it. And that's what we did. Spore was also the only major release last month on practically anything. Force Unleashed doesn't count, because that was just more Star Wars drivel that only Star Wars nerds were hyped for.

Of course, Spore was the most pirated game last month. With years of hype fueled by misleading videos, developed by Sims creator and game industry superstar Will Wright, what did you expect? Give any game that criteria, and it will be pirated til kingdom come no matter what platform it's on.

And what are you doing even using Spore as your argument? You just said that there must be grounds for comparison. Take your own advice.

[Niode]

I still don't think you're getting it.

I don't think piracy is any worse on consoles than it is on PC.

We're on the run up to xmas, all the big hitters are coming out in the next few weeks. What i'm saying is the top games are all available on the 360. That doesn't mean that that console is being pirated more. It just means that some pretty good games have just been leaked for that particular format. Give it a week or two and we'll see a tonne of PC games topping that chart, IE Dead Space, Far Cry 2, Fallout 3, Red Alert 2, End War etc.

Just because one platform has a good (or is that bad, in the eyes of the publisher) week in terms of releases doesn't automatically mean that games are more pirated for that system. I still think it's pretty even in the overall scheme of things.

[Mozgus]

I still think it's pretty even in the overall scheme of things.

And that's exactly what I've been saying. I just dont see your motive for trying to throw out my points if you agree with my overall topic.

But seriously, why do you have both platforms? How rich are you? There's practically nothing great that stays exclusive on 360, instead of receiving an often improved PC port. Maybe I just have an extremely lucky taste in games, because the only ones that stay on 360 are the ones I never wanted anyway, like Halo 3.

[Niode]

I still think it's pretty even in the overall scheme of things.

And that's exactly what I've been saying. I just dont see your motive for trying to throw out my points if you agree with my overall topic.

But seriously, why do you have both platforms? How rich are you? There's practically nothing great that stays exclusive on 360, instead of receiving an often improved PC port. Maybe I just have an extremely lucky taste in games, because the only ones that stay on 360 are the ones I never wanted anyway, like Halo 3.

Dead Rising, Forza Motorsport 2, Skate, Dead or Alive 4, Rock Band1/2, Lost Odyssee, Crackdown... That's just off the top of my head.

Dude, the 360 doesn't cost much anymore. £180 for the premium system. I've had my 360 since launch. I bought my new PC 2 weeks ago...

As for on topic. I'm saying that the figures are skewed to show that piracy on consoles is much worse than PC when in actual fact it's just that a particular high profile game has come out on one platform before anything else. In actual fact it's worse on the PC side of things purely due to the fact that there are thousands of PC titles. Compared to a few hundred 360 titles. Piracy on current games is probably pretty even across all formats though.

[Mozgus]

Ok again, nothing is skewed. You're ignoring all the others in that list. Stop that. You're only looking at 2 games. Or just check the charts anytime else until you're happy. I don't care.

Dead Rising, Forza Motorsport 2, Skate, Dead or Alive 4, Rock Band1/2, Lost Odyssee, Crackdown...

Wow, my point exactly. I don't want any of that. Dead Rising comes close, but from everything I've seen it gets boring in a couple hours, and it's very hard for all the wrong reasons (even making your way to a save point is supposed to be a gamble). I'd try it just because it's Capcom, but it doesn't seem like something I'd pay for.

Also 360 is not cheap. You have to factor in the $50 controllers, $50 for Live, and the insane prices for the shoddy little hard drive that you practically NEED to get any real use out of the machine. Suddenly it becomes a $350 console for me, and then you gatta factor in how the games always cost $10 to $20 more than on PC. Suddenly, it becomes obvious why piracy is so wild on 360. At least when you build a meaty PC, it offers an improved experience in things besides just games.

[Niode]

Also 360 is not cheap. You have to factor in the $50 controllers, $50 for Live, and the insane prices for the shoddy little hard drive that you practically NEED to get any real use out of the machine. Suddenly it becomes a $350 console for me, and then you gatta factor in how the games always cost $10 to $20 more than on PC. Suddenly, it becomes obvious why piracy is so wild on 360. At least when you build a meaty PC, it offers an improved experience in things besides just games.

Dude, the premium is less than £200. I'm not doubting that the same thing costs roughly $250 after tax over there. I'd be surprised if it didn't. You get a hard drive with it. You obviously get a controller with it. Moz, you do realise consoles when bought new come with a controller. They've been doing that for probably 4 decades now.

There are some worthwhile games on the system. Bear in mind that I bought the 360 at launch. I've had that for gaming for the last 2/3 years or so. When I didn't have a decent gaming rig. Now I do have a decent gaming rig. And guess what? You'll never guess what i've done. I mean this is so radical it's unbelievable... I sold the games that I can get cheaper on the PC... I mean, wow, that's so... y'know... out there. Why would anyone do that?! I must be some kind of frikken genius or some shit.

Dude. I respect your opinion on things now a lot more than I used to but damn. The whole, why would you want a 360 and a PC at the same time?That's really stupid. I mean, why wouldn't I?! The peripherals are compatible with each other. So I can use force feedback wheel on all my PC driving sims AND Forza. My controllers work between them. I get to choose which games I get. AKA the ones that work better on the console than the PC. IE Assassin's Creed. Or indeed I can wait for the superior PC ports for titles like Gears of War 2. There's a tonne of benefits for having both systems.

There's also the portability factor. I can take my 360 easily around to somebody's house. I can't really do that with my PC. I could probably go on if I thought long enough about it.

[Mozgus]

1) If you only need 1 controller, you're doing it wrong.

2) The premium costs $300 here. Wrong again.

3) Oh ok, so you bought a $60 360 game, then sold it for a third of that price just so you can buy it again on PC for $40-$50. Yeah that's fucking logical. You really got me there. $100 per game is the way to go.

Listen, if you shit gold bricks, thats cool. You don't have to hide it. Just don't expect other people to waste money like you do.

[Ivo]

I think Mozgus and Niode need to calm down a bit and realize than they're mostly saying the same thing.

I mostly agree with Mozgus' point that the majority of pirates are unlikely to have a *modded* 360 + a high-end PC. I'd expect that some or even many actually do have both, but for what we are talking about only modded 360s count, and I can easily see that those pirates that have a high-end PC may just buy the occasional 360 exclusive rather than mod it so they can pirate whatever version is cracked first.

The fact that the 360 version of some games gets cracked first may be an indicator that piracy is stronger on the 360 front. On the other hand it may simply be that the devs of the games know that piracy in the 360 requires a modded system, so they don't make the protection mechanisms as tricky to beat as they do in the PC, thus putting the 360 version available earlier. Let's keep that in mind as well.

In any case, the picture posted is quite sufficient to establish the main point: there is a very strong piracy scene in the consoles (as there was already in the PS1 / PS2 days, I guess). I don't know if in total numbers pirated it is worse than PCs, or if it is worse in ratios of pirated versus purchased copies. Which one should we care about? Total copies has an obvious bias of reflecting larger numbers due to different player bases.

Ivo.

[Daniel Primed]

Could I just interupt and ask a (possibly) stupid question? Hmmm...I just did, in anycase. How do games get leaked in the first place? I don't get this at all.

Also, one of the reasons why this issue has become relevant for the PC in particular is due to customer support centres. Since PC games often have security keys (on the back of the box), the customer support agents sometimes/usually request these from the callers before answering questions. These services aren't just used to help customers, they are also there for marketing and research motives.