Metal Heads Assemble!!

[brunoafh]

I don't know if I'd say the "Euro bands are the best at it," but I guess it depends on what "flavor" of Power Metal that we're talking about.

USPM is usually referring to the bands like Manilla Road, Jag Panzer, Fates Warning (kinda), etc. It's fairly distinct from the more well known european style. I definitely prefer it to the euro stuff, but it's not something I listen to super often anyway.

I like how the European bands make it totally over the top, gives it a unique charm. The USPM feels more contained and less fantastical.

[Forlorn Drifter]

Some of my favorites:

-Blind Guardian
-Demons & Wizards (made of members of both Iced Earth and Blind Guardian)
-Hammerfall
-Iced Earth (one of my all-time favorite bands, period)
-Symphony X

And while Dio may not be straight Power Metal, he was a big influence for the genre, and is more than worth listening to.

I'm not in the Baby's First Power metal stage. I'm looking for some of the more off the beaten path stuff.

Forlorn Drifter, I would suggest some power metal, but it's really not my thing. The Euro bands are the best at it really, which isn't saying a whole lot. I would rather steer someone in the direction of neo-classical, which basically takes all the musicianship that makes power metal appealing and removes the vocal aspect. If you're interested in that I could make suggestions.

I don't know if I'd say the "Euro bands are the best at it," but I guess it depends on what "flavor" of Power Metal that we're talking about.

USPM is usually referring to the bands like Manilla Road, Jag Panzer, Fates Warning (kinda), etc. It's fairly distinct from the more well known european style. I definitely prefer it to the euro stuff, but it's not something I listen to super often anyway.

Well, I do like power metal, and the cheese. I just generally steer away from Euro stuff because I end up getting sent into some really out there stuff, or I end up getting directed to a lot of Nightwish-esque style stuff, which is really easy to find. Stuff like Helloween is kick ass, but I don't want to get into something that's too out there. I'd have to really here something to point out my stopping point, as I don't know anything off the top of my head.

[BoneSnapDeez]

I use metal as a broad term to describe what might more accurately and specifically be labeled as NWOBHM, speed metal, thrash, power metal, death metal, black metal, doom metal, gothic metal, (most) grindcore, and (some) metalcore/deathcore.

Stuff like glam and nu metal is closer to rock and pop-rock in my view.

[brunoafh]

Try some of this stuff and see what you think. Just some random ones.

(Cauldron Born)
(Crimson Glory)
(Running Wild)
(Concerto Moon)

I also like Wintersun a bit as kind of a mesh of melodeath and power metal but I figure most everyone has already heard of them for one reason or another.

[BurningDoom]

And no, it wasn't to harp on the 80s. I was just wanting to point that metal isn't only underground. The last couple posts focused on the 80s to counter Brunoafh's ri-god-damn-diculous claim that hair metal isn't metal, it most certainly is. It started in the L.A. club scene, and exploded from there. It's all been clearly documented through the years. Yes there's poser bands, but that's true of any genre. If that's you're guys' reasoning for not including hair metal/glam metal, then you might as well throw the rest of the sub-genres in there, too.

It's not "ri-god-damn-diculous", and you need to get over the fact that not everyone is going to agree with your point of view when it comes to discussing music. Getting aggressive/offended like this completely ruins any potential discussion, and at this point it's obnoxious. If you see hair/glam as metal then that's fine, really, but you don't have to shove it in the face of everyone that doesn't agree with you. I have a very specific idea of what I consider to be metal based on years of playing in various rock bands from alt to hard rock to melodeath to hardcore, and and to me hair/glam is simply not metal. I look at it from a purely musical standpoint, and am mostly applying how I've felt about playing, learning, performing, and dissecting various forms of rock music for the longer half of my life. I hate to drag this conversation on, but I feel like you're calling me out. I guess if that makes me pathetic and elitist, oh well, I have surely been called worse things for less.

Are you freaking kidding me right now? I don't need to "shove it in the face of others." And I'm the one being obnoxious.?

You're the one that straight up told me it's not metal, pot meet tea kettle. If you don't want me arguing about it with you, then don't try and take an elitist approach on it.

Apple may have disagreed with me, but he was able to disagree without getting all butt-hurt about it like you (even though you caused that whole 80s discussion).

And here you guys go, hair metal (glam metal), clearly defined and documented, as presented in Metal: A Headbanger's Journey documentary:



Look at that shit. Not only is hair metal (glam metal) defined as a sub-genre, but so is nu-metal.

I don't think it's me that needs to get over my opinion, I think it's you. Or I guess you're musicianship makes you a better expert at it than the rest of the metal community, right? Not elitist sounding in the slightest.

If anything, you sound like a metal hipster. If it's not underground, and you didn't have dig deep enough to find it, then it's not metal enough. Give me a freaking break. That's ridiculous.

[Menegrothx]

I'm not in the Baby's First Power metal stage. I'm looking for some of the more off the beaten path stuff.

These are as popular/"baby's first power metal band" as they come with the exception of Freedom Call, but I recommend listening to all of these songs if you ain't heard 'em yet
Manowar: Dawn of Battle, Hail and Kill, King of Kings, Call to Arms, Blood of the kings
Rhapsody: Unholy Warcry, Emerald Sword, Eternal Glory, Dawn of Victory, Holy Thunderforce, The village of dwarves
Freedom Call: Warriors, Freedom Call, Warriors of Light, Ocean, Land of the light, Metal invasion, Rise Up
DragonForce: Black Winter Night, Valley of the damned
Stratovarius: Hunting high and low
If you dislike "sugary" stuff as you put it, you'll probably dislike everything that's not Manowar/Rhapsody though

You did mention Helloween, have you heard their Walls of Jericho album yet? It's got some really awesome songs imo.

My list wasn't "underground enough" for you? If that's the case, then I guess I do extend that aim to you too. Yeah, I do have a lot of mainstream bands on my list, but bands like Disarmonia Mundi, Dark Tranquility, Nightwish, Insomnium, Amorphis, and Children of Bodom are also on that list and get like zero mainstream attention. I enjoy ALL metal, not just Black Metal, or just Death Metal, or just whatever subgenre. That's a VERY limited way to sample metal.

Outside of Metallica, Iron Maiden (+Ozzy and other such older bands), Slipknot (and maybe Disturbed+all the other nu-metal bands like Limp Bizkit) and other really successful bands, Nightwish and Children of Bodom are some of the most widely recognized and successful metal bands in the world. Even new Amorphis is quite popular which is kinda weird and a shame, since their old sound was so much more awesome.

[BurningDoom]

^ Popular with metal-heads, yeah. But not mainstream. You don't hear those bands on the radio, you don't see them on MTV, you don't see them getting talked about in the papers or on the news or on E! or anything. However there are bands that are. I think the words mainstream and popular are being used to strongly by everyone here.

Most people, that aren't into the metal scene as much as some of us here are, think of bands like KoRn, Metallica, Ozzy Osbourne, Black Sabbath, Marilyn Manson, Slipknot, Disturbed, and Five Finger Death Punch when you bring up metal to them. Those are "popular" and "mainstream".

[Menegrothx]

CoB and Nightwish are played on radio and appear on papers to some extent here, but yeah on global scale you're probably right. But I think it's the same with electronic music, sure this stuff isn't played in radio, but younger people are still quite widely aware of the more popular bands and artists. If you hang around on the internet, and the chances are you do unless you're a mormon or something, you're bound to have atleast some kind of clue. Like if you play Counter Strike or World of Warcraft, you're almost bound to hear some of the more popular metal artists and maybe trance&dnb songs in WoW's case because they're so widely used in frag/PvP/PvE/general gaming videos. Radio and even TV is meaningless to our generation. Forums, imageboards, gaming videos, youtube, social media, IRC, those are outlets which help to spread information, opinions and music amongst young people.

[BoneSnapDeez]

Is that supposed to illustrate the "evolution" of metal? That chart is problematic in several ways.
- Why is "original hardcore" listed twice?
- Grindcore is stuck in a weird spot. As mentioned earlier, it was heavily influenced by crust and anarcho-punk, though you can't make sense of it on this chart.
- "Norwegian Black Metal" and "Swedish Death Metal" are not genres, though I guess those aren't terrible descriptors. I would have gone with second-wave black metal and melodic death metal.
- There needs to be a link from hardcore to metalcore. Early metalcore like Rorschach and Starkweather is heavily influenced by hardcore punk and metal.
- Doom metal is completely absent, as are its variants - traditional, death/doom, funeral, etc.

So yeah, I'd call that both inaccurate and incomplete. To be fair, I don't think it's easy or feasible to "map" out a musical genre anyway.

For the record, the Metal Archives does not accept glam stuff. Take that as you will.

[Forlorn Drifter]

Pulling the Headbanger's Journey stuff isn't going to help your case, BD.

In the metal world, its viewed as good from the interview standpoint, but otherwise pretty inaccurate. As Bone points out, it ignores Doom, which, y'know, is kinda important seeing as one of the original metal bands is (for the earlier albums at least) is Doom metal. And if you watch the coinciding Metal Evolution shows, you know the man has no knowledge of Power Metal, which was plain unbelievable to me. The man had good intentions, but he was out of the loop overall.