RCBH928 wrote:
@ViolentByDesign
1) I repeat this, when I said 007 was most popular multiplayer I meant by comparing it to other consoles (psx/saturn/Dreamcast?) not PCs . I do not consider PCs a competitor for consoles(see above) and if we do then we have to include it as a competitor for the Wii/Wii U too.
The PC is a competitor for the Wii and Wii-U, you say that as if that would supplement your point. If anything, the Wii and Wii-U deliver more alternatives than PCs.
I'll give you that the n64 had more popular multiplayer games than the PSX and Saturn, but even that is skewered. Not a lot of people have Saturns in the West even though it has a ton of quality multiplayer games.
I dont get the Dreamcast comparison. Dreamcast rivals N64 in 4 player games, and it has a ton of multiplayer games. NFL 2k, Phantasy Star, NBA2k, Quake/Unreal ports, Power Stone, Marvel vs Capcom 2, Chu Chu Rocket, Soul Calibur and a ton of other fighting and sports games. Aside from the Dreamcast being next gen, it has a much more versatile and vibrant library of games than the n64.
I will not talk about N64 and online multiplayer for the PC because the point I was trying to make was that N64 brought different and high quality games put against the PSX/Saturn than what the Wii brought over the PS3 and 360.
Fair enough. I still don't like the distinction of Goldeneye being the most popular multiplayer game though. It probably was not more popular than Mario Kart 64, in which case every Nintendo system has a Mario Kart anyway.
2) - RE4 is a wonderful game but you can not count it as a + for the Wii . How would you feel if you buy a PS4 and they count Halo 3 and Gears of War as part of the top 10 list? You did not have to wait 7 years, you could have bought a 360 all along and play the game and not invest in a new PS4. Even worse for the Wii, you could have just bought a used RE4 gamecube disc and it would've worked. It is not like and HD remake. How would you feel if the PSX had Gunstar Heroes and Comix Zone in their top 10 list?
RE4 on the Wii is a different experience, and RE4 came out like a year and a half before the Wii did.
How would I feel...if one of a consoles best games could be found on a slightly older console? I would feel happy, good games are good games. I don't understand your Halo and Gears comparison at all (why are they even on PS4?). For one, I personally don't rate those games that high and are not amongst my favorite 360 games. Two, if they were some how enhanced in a way on the PS4 which not only upgraded the experience but gave it a completely different one, then I would have no problems considering one of the best games on the console.
Your argument revolves around making video games sound prestigious instead of fun. No one has any problems saying Persona 4 Golden is the best game on the PSVita. What about FF Tactics or Tactics Ogre on PSP? No one had any problems pimpin the Mario Advance games or Super Mario All Stars. No one has problems rating Tony Hawk Pro Skater, NFL Blitz or Rayman 2 highly even though they are cross-generational titles.
When Metal Gear solid 5 comes out, is that going to just be thrusted into this limbo since it will come out on 360/PS3 as well as Xboxone/PS4? Use the same logic with the new Batman game, the new Rayman game, Watchdogs and some other shit. Hell, Twilight Princess was on both the Gamecube and Wii, but no one cares to remember that.
-You will have to consider some other factor here, back in the n64 days gaming was not as popular as it is now. Today videogames are making more than Hollywood , it will be very hard to believe that Metal Gear Solid made more money on launch than The Titanic which is the kind of stuff happening today.
Titanic made a 2 billion dollar profit on box office alone, without inflation adjusted. So this statement is going off extreme hyperbole. I hope you know that these big expensive titles don't actually make huge profits despite pushing a lot of units. Movies are still more profitable than video games (in some ways, certainly movies pre internet era are more popular than video games are today), but yes, video games are more popular.
I never compared any raw numbers from the Wii vs n64 though, so why are we talking about how games sold less in the 90s? When I say the n64 had a small library, I'm talking about relative for its time.
It is only natural that the N64 had a smaller selection .
WOAAAAH, WOAH.
Are you actually using ERA as an excuse for why the n64 had a small selection? The n64 has ALWAYS been rated as a console with a small library, even during the 90s. The n64 has less games made for it than the Sega Saturn despite being way more popular. The PSX beats the n64s libraries by the thousands probably. I'm sure the SNES, NES and Genesis all produced more games than the n64. The PS2/Gamecube/Xbox and probably Dreamcast all beat out the n64 in terms of total games made.
While it is true that the N64 had a smaller library its games are much higher quality considering the era . Mario was revolutionary, I believe it was the first 3D platformer and if it wasn't they were the first guys that made it right.
It wasn't the first 3D platformer nor the first good one. It was the first one that gave you open world like freedom. Though the idea of going into 3D dimensions was already done in other genres.
Can you give a similar thing happening on the Wii?
Well to actually counter your argument, Motion Controls. But I'm having problems keeping up with your argument. You keep changing it from
Innovation
To critical acclaim
To your personal opinion of a game
To sales
You need to stick to a criteria, and it really doesn't matter where you take this argument, the Wii can challenge the n64 on every floor. Obviously when it comes to good games vs bad games, it is personal opinion, but you're greatly overblowing the n64s significance.
There is also something I'd like to point out in your argument. Notice how you keep mentioning Mario 64 and Zelda? Kinda alluded what I said about the n64. N64 is the Mario and Zelda box (again not my personal opinion, my fav game on the console wasn't even Nintendo made). Bringing up mario 64 for your clutch for why the n64 had more merit as a console is weak.
I remember that one guy here in the forum said that if he was interested in 7 or more games on any one console it was worthwhile the purchase and the 64 had way much more than that. And I do not agree on the point of fanboyism . Take out the Nintendo franchises off the Wii and take out the Nintendo franchises off the 64 , then lets compare the 64 titles to the psx and the Wii titles to the ps3 and see which console gives you a better reason to buy it. Even if you find more titles on the Wii , you will always find a better alternative on the ps3 while I am not sure what was a better alternative on the psx for Conker, 007, Perfect Dark, Kazooie.
I actually find it strange how the n64 is only compared to the PSX, but PC and Saturn are not eligible. Now, you said that you feel like PC shouldn't count, but let me show you why this can be seen as unfair.
You're claiming the PS3 has better alternatives to counter the Wii's library than PSX vs N64. But many of those alternatives for the PS3, actually have superior ports on the PC, which from someone who does not discriminate games based on their platform would make the PS3 and especially the 360 more redundant. So this whole, you can't count PC games, especially when referencing an FPS in Perfect Dark (one that came out post 2000) isn't a fair comparison.
No, you cannot find an FPS on the PSX, but why would you want to play an FPS on a console unless you were not open enough to play them on PC. It makes no sense.
Banjo Kazooie is basically just Mario 64, but aside from that the PSX has a ton of 3D platformers. Spyro and Crash were amongst the most popular games (not to mention more underrated games like Ape Escape). I mean Conkers is cute, but there were a ton of graphic games on PSX.
-Every console is largely defined by certain games.
Yes, but a console as big as N64 being defined by two games, is a little degrading.
3)I am not sure what point you are trying to make by saying Wii is critisized for not having non-exclusives : Tiger Woods10, Tiger Woods 11, RE4, Okami, Twilight Princes, The Beatles: Rock Band, CoD: BlackOps, and No More Heroes all of which are non-exclusive of have different versions on other platforms.
My point is you're using Rayman Origins as a reason for why the Wii is bad (when Rayman Origins came out more or less simultaneously on the Wii as the other consoles), when the Wii's largest criticism is its lack of multiplat games.
You can't surely be involved in the video game community and not know of that complaint. I don't even know why you listed those games (and really black ops on the Wii?), no one said they had no multiplat games
. Many of the games you can find on 360 and PS3 cannot be found on the Wii.
4) Its 2013 , and people still say that they would buy a Wii for a Zelda game and Wii U is featuring Wind Waker REMAKE as part of its reasons to buy a $350 console,
People would buy a new console to play a game they either liked or haven't played but heard was good? I don't see a problem. Resident Evil 1 was the best single player game on the Gamecube, and it is a remake.
Aside from that, the Wii-U is going to have a brand new Zelda, so I don't get why you're using Ocarina of Time as a crutch. As I said before, using Mario and Zelda as the n64s strengths is silly, because you get those games on every Nintendo console.
and you are telling me that there was an alternative to the first 3D Zelda on the 64 on the psx?
Were there action adventure games on the PSX? I'd say so.
I am sorry,but I believe that game scored a full 10/10 in many reviews.
Oh...because the PSX was so short on games that didn't score high reviews.
5) Little King Story is not an exclusive(There is a Vita version) and Blast Corps is an exclusive game to the 64.
Little Kings Story is an exclusive to the Wii. The Wii and Vita are different generations, and Little Kings Story is a different game on the Vita btw.
I doubt how many people with ps3 will look at King Story and say "you know what I do not think I have something similar or better alternative to this game, I will buy a WIi for it" maybe some do... , According to Wikipedia it sold around 100k units and out of the 100m Wiis sold I am not sure if you would consider that game a "reason" to buy the 64 as you used the argument that Blast Corps and Ogre Battle were not popular back in the day...well, Little King Story does not seem to be popular today too.. (btw, I did the calculation, only 0.001% of Wii owners bought that game)
I don't understand what this paragraph is about. Little Kings Story is not a popular game, I never said it was. I was pointing out that you were being hypocritical by pimpin Ogre Battle and Blast Corps (far less popular games, the former being obscure) but you disregarded LKS due to sales. I never said LKS was popular or even implied it, reading my post right now and I said the opposite.
6) Again we are not comparing the N64 to the Wii U. I am comparing the quality and exclusivity of N64 compared to the Wii and assuming that the Wii U is heading that path too. I really would like to know what multiplayer game on the Wii that was a good reason to purchase 4 Wiimotes and 4 Nunchucks . Mario Kart 7? or was it 22? Sorry I lost count, we go back to the same problem that Nintendo is not bring anything new really..
Well first off, can we stop pretending like buying 4 controllers is crazy. Buying 4 controllers for any console is expensive, because controllers are expensive.
If we're comparing the n64 vs the Wii. Basically almost all the games you're going to be mentioned for the n64, you can apply to the Wii.
New Super Mario Bros Wii, Rayman Origins, Monster Hunter (not local, but four player connectivity), Dokapon Kingdom. This is just off the top of my head. That's not including the other Nintendo usuals like Smash Bros and what not.
I am not sure how you are using this as an argument , you are telling me that I have to buy a Wii and 4 Wiimotes and 4 Nunchucks , then upgrade to Wii U so that multiplayer is not expensive on the Wii U? 2 consoles and 8 controllers?
Huh? I said if you had bought 4 wii controlers for your nintendo Wii (a console that people have owned for 7 years already), then you obviously do not need to buy a new set of controls.
I have no idea why you keep saying multiplayer is expensive. Localized multiplayer is expensive on every console. You think buying 4 PS3 controllers is cheap? I just bought a used 360 controller that wasn't even wireless for 25 dollars
.
7) We are not making comparison each console to the one preceding it, we are taking the whole. I personally think that N64 was revolutionary with the first analogue stick,
Not true.
first 3D platfomer(probably still the console to go to for 3D platformers) ,
Not true.
first 4 multiplayer local,
Far from the truth.
the console that made FPS popular on consoles ,
Depends on what you call popular, and who cares? FPS are a PC thing.
first rumble packs(am I right?)
Sure.
We cant say the same fot he Gamecube and while the Wii brought in motion controls, where are the games that use these controls? Why do I need motion controls for Mario Galaxy, Brawl and Kart? oh wait they use them for kiddy games like flipping burgers and shaking hard to win at Mario Party. We wanted more games like Red Steel. But we got Cooking Mama and Carnival Games .
Light gun games, Resident Evil, Red Steel, Skyward Sword off the top of my head. Sports game are done pretty well as well.
Motion controls are still a young technology, so I don't know why you're acting like the possibility that more quality motion based games coming out is unlikely. If we're talking about innovation, you have to give Wii major props. They actually influenced their generation more than the n64 did. The Xbox and PS3 had to adopt motion controls of their own, so I don't really get why you're stressing on impact when the Wii was clearly a very impactful console. You're trying to use objective claims like "the n64 invented this", but you're not admitting how much the Wii influenced the industry based on your own personal preference.
If we're using personal preference, you might as well stop mentioning Ocarina of Time to me, because I thought that game was insanely boring.
