Boyscouts snip from ticked thread

[dsheinem]

*snipped out from the smile/ticked thread to avoid poisoning that thread since this quickly headed south - Hobie*

I find it hard to support the Boy Scouts given that they still have a policy against homosexual scout leaders. I'm glad that they now (finally and under intense pressure) admit gay scouts, but what are you supposed to tell someone who is gay, goes through to Eagle Scout, and then wants to continue their involvement (perhaps as a leader) for life? "Thanks, but no thanks!"

I'd never enroll my son in an organization that openly discriminates based on sexual orientation. I think it sends the wrong message. My wife was a Gold Award winning Girl Scout, and as far as I know their organization (which also receives govt funding) is much more open and fair to all while teaching many of the same types of things. Too bad the Boy Scouts can't follow suit.

[mjmjr25]

I've been a scout leader 3 years now. Perhaps there is a longstanding policy (re: homosexual leaders) - but at least in my area it is not addressed. Nor is it on the application that I fill out every year. The application is the national application - not localized; nowhere does it mention or request information on sexual orientation.

[dsheinem]

I've been a scout leader 3 years now. Perhaps there is a longstanding policy (re: homosexual leaders) - but at least in my area it is not addressed. Nor is it on the application that I fill out every year. The application is the national application - not localized; nowhere does it mention or request information on sexual orientation.

official policy: http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/conten ... ution.aspx

basically DADT, which is still discriminatory

[Jmustang1968]

I've been a scout leader 3 years now. Perhaps there is a longstanding policy (re: homosexual leaders) - but at least in my area it is not addressed. Nor is it on the application that I fill out every year. The application is the national application - not localized; nowhere does it mention or request information on sexual orientation.

official policy: http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/conten ... ution.aspx

basically DADT, which is still discriminatory

I think they are trying to take a non-stance or as neutral as possible on a sensitive subject, especially with the religious ties the program has. I think some parents would withhold membership if they feared even a slight sexual attraction to their child from a counselor or leader or whatever. While obviously there is no gaurantee that would happen as rules stand anyway, I can see the situation they are in and sympathize a bit.

[Luke]

The reason behind no gay scout masters is to prevent pedophiles being involved in the organization. Not all pedophiles are gay, and not all gays are pedophiles, but the Scouts would rather play it safe to avoid any legal charges.

It's an antiquated rule, no doubt, but if one of my scout masters lisped "Oh! Well deary me, now that is how you carve an arrow head. Kids, come take a look. That is one fabulous arrow head", as a kid I would feel a bit weird.

South Park had an episode confronting this very topic.

And it is a religious affiliation, so some still see homos as practicing sexual deviance.

We have a President of mixed race. The scouts will come along soon or later.

[AppleQueso]

More people seriously need to realize that homosexuality =/= pedophilia holy crap.

[Luke]

The Scouts are a step behind, but they're trying to cover their own butts (which is wise in our sue happy Country).

The Scouts are really high on morality and religion, and unfortunately most religions find homosexuality to be immoral. They see it as a fail safe. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I went to an elementary school where a few of my friends were sexually molested by an openly gay Principal, so I understand the paranoia.

[dsheinem]

Look, BSA has every right to do what they want in terms of discrimination if they were to just stop taking public funds. When my tax dollars pay for it, I get mad.

They are also closed to children and leaders who don't believe in God. Here's this from their official policy:

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which a member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership.

Either ditch the religious stuff and end discrimination or ditch state funding. I can't help but feel a little upset that they drape themselves in the flag and pretend to stand for "American values" when there's far from universal agreement on the sort of things they represent.

And look, I know scouting does lots of great stuff in communities and teaches valuable lessons. They can be a very worthwhile force in someone's life and I don't want to see them go away or anything like that...I want them to be something I could be proud to place my son in and support with my tax dollars. Right now, because their values are so out of step with mine and many others, neither of those things are true.

Also, what AQ said. I mean FFS, folks.

[mjmjr25]

Certainly it was formed as a religious organization but has branched and adapted to current environments be more universally accessible.

Honestly, i'm not aware of the government ties or subsidies, but I can tell you that we are not allowed to advertise events in our local schools because of the religious (ie: "exclusionary") tenets of the scouts.

Without going off track and discussing homosexuality / religious beliefs, i'd suggest this.

Would you want your 12yo daughter staying at an overnight camp with a 30yo male scout leader? Maybe you may, but I know I wouldn't. I wouldn't want that person, no matter how a good a person they may be, to be in a situation where they are seeing my daughter change her clothes, use a restroom, or asking questions about her body. For the reasons I wouldn't want that, are the same reasons I wouldn't want a male homosexual scout leader doing a sleepover with my 12yo son.

@Luke - scouts is expensive? Hmmm, again, my scope is limited, but we have boys who pay zero dues or any other costs. Day camps and overnight camps that are more nationalized events have less wiggle room, but anything local your pack can take care of via donations and fundraisers. Outside of day camps, we've spend less than $100 in 3 years and most of that was uniforms, which could have been subsidized by the pack if we'd went that route.

[mjmjr25]

Look, BSA has every right to do what they want in terms of discrimination if they were to just stop taking public funds. When my tax dollars pay for it, I get mad.

Likewise, dsh, we all get upset at seeing tax dollars going to things we find morally distasteful. Be it free cell phones or planned parenthood.