Wii-U thoughts so far

[Violent By Design]

Fact.

Obviously if you're discussing the top anything, it is a matter of opinion. I don't understand how pointing out the obvious in that my statement is an opinion is contributing to anything.

[Ziggy]

FWIW, it is an opinion shared by critics. Meatcritic has the top 50 PS3 games with an average of 92.1 and a median of 92, the top 50 360 games with an average of 92.2 and a median of 92 and the top 50 Wii games with an average of 87.9 and a median of 87.

Yeah, but critic or Joe Nobody, it's still just an opinion. Almost all of the flak Nintendo catches these days is just opinion based. That's what I'm saying. Of course, I'll admit, I'm biased and my responses here mostly grew out of the annoyances I found in the "region free Nintendo" thread (which was spliced out into the "Rev Hates Nintendo" thread) when I wanted to engage in a more constructive conversation actually pertaining to the thread's topic.

edit: The bolded, that's what I'm annoyed about. Opinions on why Nintendo sucks, little to no facts at all (none in the case of the mentioned threads). Normally I don't care. Every one has their opinions and that doesn't bother me in the slightest. But when it starts to overtake and be off-topic, such as this thread (not targeting you here, dsh) or the region free thread, I start to get annoyed. /edit

But unless we're just gonna blindly follow the opinions of critics, it still doesn't mean anything.

There's lots of companies that have come out and talked about not supporting the Wii or porting games to it BECAUSE of the numbers. It DOES make sense to talk about them now, because of the fact that they are so bad (as I listed in a previous post where I discussed comparative performance by quarter and in the first year). The economy - including consumer spending - has long been on a rebound, so I think that it is a non-factor or a small factor: it certainly isn't 99% of the reason. Poor marketing/naming and low appeal to the majority of money-spending gamers are the main reasons for its decline.

You said "not supporting the Wii," did you mean to say "Wii U"? LOL, so yeah, I'll give ya the poor naming thing.

I didn't say the economy was 99% of the reason for poor sales. I said the economy plus the fact that the selection of games is horrible is probably 99% of the reason. The poor selection of games thus far making up most of the 99% probably. And that will all change, it's too early to look at numbers.

The economy on the rebound?

My previous post:

I'm a 26 year old living on Long Island. I've been itching to get a U but businesses are stingy and jobs aren't paying good at all. I haven't gotten a raise in a good 2 years now at my first job and haven't had work at my other job since early this year.

Jobs were created on Long Island and it was declared, "The economy is on the rebound!" The problem is most of the good paying jobs are gone, the available jobs are very low paying (right down to minimum wage which is a joke on LI).

Obama decided that any business with 50 or more employees must give full time benefits to any employee working over 29 hours per week, whether they are considered full time or part time. I'm considered part time by my chapter 11 company. So 29 hours has been my cap for a while now. Of COURSE they don't want to give me more benefits! All the other big chains are doing the same.

My other job was forced to move to a new location because of economy related issues, and since I'm a repair tech paid per job and the shop is now unknown in its new area I haven't had work since they moved.

Probably due to overwhelming lobbying and whatnot, the 29 hour thing has been reversed (for now) but it's too late. My company decided that 29 hours is enough for part time employees, even though my particular store is #1 or 2 in the district and we're hurting for help. Hurting for help mainly because they only higher at minimum wage. And no chance of a raise until at least the end of the current contract, which is another 3 or so years. Yes, no raises was in our union contract. You know what else? Every employee gets paid minimum wage for their first hour worked of every week. That doesn't mean too much to me, but that's $20 lost each week for some full timers.

I was just vacationing in PA a couple of weeks ago. I can't believe how much cheaper everything is. Not just gas and the normal stuff like that, but just everything. The cost of living seems to be much, much cheaper. I bet housing cost and property taxes are much lower too. So while the media is saying how the economy is rebounding, and I'm sure it is to some extent, I'm still not so happy here on LI.

I'd love to buy a Wii U, I just don't have the money. I'm sure I'm not the only one out of the 7 or 8 million living on LI. And I know there's other locations in the USA comparable to LI, with dense populations.

So, the economy definitely isn't a non-issue. And I'm guessing larger than a small issue. The economy still sucks, I don't care what any one says.

[dsheinem]

But unless we're just gonna blindly follow the opinions of critics, it still doesn't mean anything.

It just means that his opinion is shared by those who review games for a living. Nothing more, nothing less. It shows that his opinion isn't isolated and can be at least partially defended by appeals to authority.

You said "not supporting the Wii," did you mean to say "Wii U"?

Yup.

The economy on the rebound? ....*snip past post*.... So, the economy definitely isn't a non-issue. And I'm guessing larger than a small issue. The economy still sucks, I don't care what any one says.

Slow Wii U sales?

See it's fine to have an opinion/personal experience about both A) the quality of Wii or Wii U games and B) the state of the economy. But when you leverage those personal opinions to make a larger point to a wider audience you generally need more than your own thoughts/experience in order to make the argument carry any weight. "I don't care what any one says" is not a good argument about the facticity of an economic recovery, just like "I think the Wii's top 50 games are superior" is not in and of itself a good argument about those titles.

Also, we've long debated Wii U sales performance in this thread, so it isn't tangential or off-topic.

Anyway, sorry to be an argumentative sort - but that's how I tend to be. I'm willing to drop things if you don't want to push on these points any further and we can all get back to talking about how psyched we are for Pikmin 3.

[Ziggy]

It just means that his opinion is shared by those who review games for a living. Nothing more, nothing less. It shows that his opinion isn't isolated and can be at least partially defended by appeals to authority.

But c'mon, critics? We're putting them up on a pedestal? They're better than us and their words count more? Authority my ass, they're the same as you or me. The fact that they get paid for it means nothing. Critical reviews are more about how sensational the writing is rather than the actual review itself. THAT'S what critics usually get paid for. I've long ago learned to ignore critics of all kinds. Aside from all other facts, I like to make up my own mind about things. Who cares what a critic says?

See it's fine to have an opinion/personal experience about both A) the quality of Wii or Wii U games and B) the state of the economy. But when you leverage those personal opinions to make a larger point to a wider audience you generally need more than your own thoughts/experience in order to make the argument carry any weight. "I don't care what any one says" is not a good argument about the facticity of an economic recovery, just like "I think the Wii's top 50 games are superior" is not in and of itself a good argument about those titles.

You completely missed the point of my post if that's what you got from it. Or at least, you only skimmed through it. "I don't care what any one says" was in reference to you or the media telling us the economy is better. While it might be better than it's lowest low, it's still far from good and not even close to great. My personal experiences was to show you my first hand knowledge. I'm of course not using that as a base for how I view the economy in its totality. I naturally know and talk to other people that also live on LI. Like my second job, a small business owner. Tell him the economy is not a factor. Or just every one I know that is middle class and blue collar. Every one on LI took a hit, and it might have gotten a little better in some areas, but it's still not great. So yeah, I'll stand by what I said. I don't care what any one says, the economy still isn't great.

And just for the record, I didn't hop on the band wagon and start blaming Obama for everything. But since he's done things that directly affect me in a negative way, he's not my favorite person. When THOSE particular things come up, his name comes up. Never more or less than that.

Also, we've long debated Wii U sales performance in this thread, so it isn't tangential or off-topic.

And I've long bit my tongue. Not that talking sales is even off-topic for this thread, it actually is ON topic if anything, but it just seemed to get down to a point where nothing else was being said but negative things (I've stated my annoyances of some of them in my previous posts in this thread). I've eyed this thread since it was started, and while I haven't read it in its entirety, I have tuned into it often to hear news and opinions and get article links and so on. Racketboy just happens to be my only source of gaming news. I've already stated what I got annoyed with, and why. And some anger possibly misdirected from another thread mentioned. So I wont keep going on and on about the same point I've been trying to make.

Anyway, sorry to be an argumentative sort - but that's how I tend to be. I'm willing to drop things if you don't want to push on these points any further and we can all get back to talking about how psyched we are for Pikmin 3.

HA! Well you're talking to part Italian from NY, so don't bother apologizing for being argumentative. I eat arguments for breakfast. I'm use to having arguments be casual conversations.

But yeah, we can drop it here. We're not gonna get anywhere. But more importantly, I'm annoyed by the derailment of threads from Nintendocrapping. Dragging it out myself, I became the very thing I was annoyed with!

PS: I'm not psyched for Pikmin 3, having never played the first two.

[wclem]

For all their so called failures they just keep on pushing systems and games out the door. They must be making money some how. Last I checked, companies did not keep making product when the were continually losing money. Bottom line is if they were losing money or in danger of collapse you would have never seen a Wii U or a Wii whatever hit the shelves. They are still making them as far as I know.

[Jmustang1968]

There is a distinct difference between losing 3rd party software support and going out of business.

[MrPopo]

There is a distinct difference between losing 3rd party software support and going out of business.

This. The SNES was the last time a Nintendo console has had good third party support.

[dsheinem]

There is a distinct difference between losing 3rd party software support and going out of business.

This. The SNES was the last time a Nintendo console has had good third party support.

I think the GameCube and Wii did. Most of my games for both systems are third party. Most are also exclusives.

[Xeogred]

I have actually begun to see the Wii as having way more good games than I thought they had. The big three that came our way were great, with Xenoblade, Last Story and Pandora. I have actually found 40-50 worth my time games. Truthfully, more than the 360 and almost as many as the PS3. I have been in error as to the quality of the Wii games till recent. It is a shame I found out too late.

+1. I have maybe two dozen Wii games, with about half of them being first party games, and I've only recently realized that there's possibly a ton of gems. After reading and digging a little, I've already had to add several Wii games to my want list and a lot more to me "look into further" list. I picture myself experiencing undiscovered (by myself) Wii games in the future the way we do now with the NES or SNES or Genesis (for examples).

+2.

Like I recently said here or in another thread elsewhere, I think the Wii somehow turned out to secretly be one of Nintendo's best consoles. Perhaps the Wii U will stealthy work its way up to that status as well.

I'm sure I and others here can assure anyone though, the kiddie/lame stigma damage has already been done. Out of like a dozen gaming fans I know of at work I'm about the only one who apparently would even dare to bring up Nintendo. Mascots are practically dead, times are different as is the market, so it's not all that surprising Nintendo doesn't have the spotlight like they used too I guess. But yeah, I don't get the idea that they have ever been in financial trouble over the years. I'd be surprised if anyone out there only owns a Wii or Wii U for something more current, if you really need those other AAA games just get them elsewhere. That might counter the argument, but in the end surely I'm not the only one who eventually gets suckered into buying Nintendo stuff for Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc... only to eventually realize there's so much more. lol

That said and I always say it around here lately, but I think comparing the third party support of the N64, Saturn, Dreamcast, Gamecube, and Xbox, um, combined, to that of the PS1/PS2 is pretty much a joke. The fact is, there are 8,000 more games on the Sony platforms! Both the Gamecube and Xbox being the weakest links in my book. The standout on the Cube for me was Metroid Prime, but being a lucky owner of the Prime Trilogy on the Wii, I can just play those there. Same with REmake and RE0 that apparently got ported over. So other than that... yeah. Most Gamecube stuff I can play elsewhere, and most Xbox stuff is better on the PC. But there's the 8,000 games on the PS2 so I keep that bad boy hooked up all the time.

[alienjesus]

PS: I'm not psyched for Pikmin 3, having never played the first two.

Oh man, you should get on that. I adore Pikmin 1, and 2 is pretty solid too.