graffix_13 wrote:I collect comic books (CGC graded books) and sealed video games. So I'm not totally opposed to VGA, but I am still a little perplexed about actually slabbing video games. Comic books I can understand. And I only collect my favorite video games sealed (and don't have any intention of selling them).
But you can't read a slabbed book either. For an action figure or a baseball card, you can still see the item. Since most adults with action figures are treating them more like statues anyway, being in a case doesn't really affect that.
Right. But for my slabbed books they are books that I have read and/or can read in cheap reprints/digital. Or, cheap "reader" copies (i.e. poor condition). I enjoy the comic hobby on two different levels: The story/art AND collecting rare/valuable issues.
Same goes for video games. You either have loose carts/discs OR get a emulator for such games and not break the bank. For your favorites or rare games, you take care of those games. If that's your thing of course.
I just watched the videos, and while his arguments about the pricing schemes and certain claims seem well thought through, and I can agree with, his other claims about sealing things and collecting are pretty far out there.
First off, lets look at the purpose of grading something.
The purpose of grading is to verify authenticity, and get a third parties opinion on condition.
This is what the VGA is attempting to do. Do they do a good job at it? Not really. The pricing structure is pretty bad, and letting fakes through when you are a so called expert is as well. I personally would not use them.
As for the drastically inflated prices, that is all the fault of the people getting things graded and selling them. They are not following good business practices. Only get things graded if its worth it to do so. If you compare this to coins, they are the equivalent of that shit head coin guy on QVC.
Another thing that he failed to mention in the video was graded coins, stamps and currencies. These have existed for a long time and have not destroyed the collecting communities like he suggested.
From what I have seen, graded coins sell for normal market values. Graded coins generally achieve a higher price than ungraded, because the uncertainties of authenticity are removed, and there is an agreed upon condition. This can also be observed with stamps and currency.
You will still run across people trying to artificially inflate the values of coins which is not solely attached to grading. For instance, the state quarters are not really worth anything, and they never will be. Sure a MS set will carry some value, but you will not be able to retire from it. Also, I don't really see the point in mass grading new coins. But if you were to spend $10,000+ on a rare coin you would be a fool to buy one that isn't authenticated and graded.
I also think the "Games are meant to be played" argument is very poor. I would say in many cases, someone who collects something is not using an item for its intended purpose.
Coins are meant to be traded for goods and services, so is currency.
Stamps are meant for mailing letters.
That doesn't mean you can't do both, but don't tell someone that can't own something because they aren't using it for its intended purpose.
In conclusion, the VGA has some poor business practices, but the people who use it incorrectly are more to blame than the service itself.
sonic2041 wrote:I also think the "Games are meant to be played" argument is very poor. I would say in many cases, someone who collects something is not using an item for its intended purpose.
You can also think of collected and graded items in an artistic sense. Coins, stamps, and baseball cards can all still be fully looked at once graded and protected. Action figures and toys in window boxes and blister packs can still mostly be seen. With comics and games, you can see only the outer cover of the actual item. Most of the enjoyment is locked away inside. Vehicles sitting in a garage are kind of the same to me. You can look at them, but if you can't drive that nice sports car, it is mostly wasted if it sits inside all the time. That's just my opinion though. *shrug*
I feel the same way, Hobie. A slabbed baseball card or action figure is one thing. I can even contend to slabbing a comic book and reading a digital copy. But slabbing a video game, I just can't agree with.
Now if I had to choose just one extreme side of the argument, I wouldn't even have to think about it, I'm of the mindset "games are made to be played." That said, I'm not completely against collecting sealed games. I've even thought about hunting for a sealed copy of one of my favorites, just for the sake of collecting it. But I wouldn't put it in an impossible to open coffin. Perhaps one of those clear plastic cases with flaps things, so it can be easily removed.
And if I did buy a sealed game, there's probably a 50/50 chance that I would open it. To me, getting a sealed NES or SNES game is awesome. How long has it been since I was able to buy a new SNES game and open it for the first time. There's nothing like that feeling when you open a new game. Getting one now, there's more value to me in opening it then keeping it sealed.
Ziggy587 wrote:I feel the same way, Hobie. A slabbed baseball card or action figure is one thing. I can even contend to slabbing a comic book and reading a digital copy. But slabbing a video game, I just can't agree with.
Just watched the videos earlier, and I feel this way too. Getting a really old sealed copy of a game is great, and from a collector's standpoint I can see why you may want to preserve it. Although personally, I rather give my sealed copies to somebody else that will appreciate the fact that their sealed. If I own a game, I want to be able to play it and enjoy it to it's fullest.
Action figures are the same way with me. I can understand why people want them sealed, but I'd rather be able to pose them and put them on display. One can make the argument "Action Figures are meant to be played with and not looked at". It seems to be difficult for people to take a centralized stand point on this issue.
All that said. I think the VGA and "grading system" is a total fraud/rip-off...
This week Game Rave TV exposes the flaws, problems, and false truths in getting your video games 'graded' and 'secured' inside acrylic cases. The main focus is on the Video Game (Grading) Authority, but there are now copycats popping up here and there.
It's a good watch, and utterly destroys the VGA's reputation.
And a follow up:
Here he shows how easy it is to fake a misprint without damaging the security seal.
This is a supplemental video to Episode 4: Video Game Authority Debunking. We illustrate how a 'wrong insert' variant / misprint can apparently be faked and 'qualified' by the Grading Company. The text and still images reference the auction
Great video finds. If VGA wants to continue they need to find better experts or make harsher criteria on what qualifies as a sealed game for grading. Things like the Metal Gear Solid packing mistake and the Pacman variant mistake are unacceptable if they want to be a real authority.
sonic2041 wrote:I just watched the videos, and while his arguments about the pricing schemes and certain claims seem well thought through, and I can agree with, his other claims about sealing things and collecting are pretty far out there.
First off, lets look at the purpose of grading something.
The purpose of grading is to verify authenticity, and get a third parties opinion on condition.
This is what the VGA is attempting to do. Do they do a good job at it? Not really. The pricing structure is pretty bad, and letting fakes through when you are a so called expert is as well. I personally would not use them.
As for the drastically inflated prices, that is all the fault of the people getting things graded and selling them. They are not following good business practices. Only get things graded if its worth it to do so. If you compare this to coins, they are the equivalent of that shit head coin guy on QVC.
Another thing that he failed to mention in the video was graded coins, stamps and currencies. These have existed for a long time and have not destroyed the collecting communities like he suggested.
From what I have seen, graded coins sell for normal market values. Graded coins generally achieve a higher price than ungraded, because the uncertainties of authenticity are removed, and there is an agreed upon condition. This can also be observed with stamps and currency.
You will still run across people trying to artificially inflate the values of coins which is not solely attached to grading. For instance, the state quarters are not really worth anything, and they never will be. Sure a MS set will carry some value, but you will not be able to retire from it. Also, I don't really see the point in mass grading new coins. But if you were to spend $10,000+ on a rare coin you would be a fool to buy one that isn't authenticated and graded.
I also think the "Games are meant to be played" argument is very poor. I would say in many cases, someone who collects something is not using an item for its intended purpose.
Coins are meant to be traded for goods and services, so is currency.
Stamps are meant for mailing letters.
That doesn't mean you can't do both, but don't tell someone that can't own something because they aren't using it for its intended purpose.
In conclusion, the VGA has some poor business practices, but the people who use it incorrectly are more to blame than the service itself.
That's just it. It's not VGA's place to police resale value. Why should they be held responsible when third-party buyers and sellers drive up prices?
The credibility of VGA and their services is supposed to steam from their own business practices. Things like grade consistency, detecting fakes, public relations...
That particular item has been the subject of debate for maybe two years now? Needless to say, the NWC ROM is easily found online if preservation is the point. And in fairness, given how many times that cart has been up for sale, it's safe to say there aren't many fans of the blown-up presentation.
And I have an older reply in this thread (predating the PS collector's videos), so I won't "double dip", but there are some detailed replies to the videos with merit on the nintendoage collector's corner forum (look a page or two back). I'm still a fan of VGA in principle although I do see some seller's as extremely... optimistic with their buy it now prices (you'll of course notice most have a or best offer, too). As for the VGA getting it wrong, I've only seen a few concrete examples of that chronicled online weighed against hundreds of seemingly competent grades.
