World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[ZeroAX]

What is it with islamists and dictatorship? Even the most successful muslim democracy is fighting in the streets to stop its islamist PM from turning into a dictator.

Then again any religious based government is going to become totalitarian sooner or later because by default it will try to oppress that which is different.

[RCBH928]

I do not think islamists has to do anything with dictatorship , I think its just an excuse. What I believe is that there are outsiders (ex.China Russia) that are involved with the internal politics of the islamic countries because it serves their benefits.

A new PM get voted in say Libya, along comes Frances and drops $30m in his pocket because he will sign a contract to sell France oil barrels for 50% off. Some one notices this and then he want "in" and if he gets denied he becomes the opposition. All this will lead to internal political instability cause economy to go down rising things like unemployment and expensive healthcare. BOOM new revolution. Outsiders CREATE the dictator . This is a very simple basic fictional example of how things work.

We all know the old tactic of causing wars/tension in certain parts of the world because countries involved will buy weapons in BILLIONS of dollars. Weapons they dont need and will never use. All this political hysteria and death of innocent just so the corrupted capitalist/politician somewhere else in the world would make a buck.

[ZeroAX]

I do not think islamists has to do anything with dictatorship , I think its just an excuse. What I believe is that there are outsiders (ex.China Russia) that are involved with the internal politics of the islamic countries because it serves their benefits.

I was talking about Turkey. No one thinks of it when they speak of "Islamic world", but with their Islamist prime minister the country was getting there. The asshole even said that the protests were being spurred by "foreign powers".

As someone who is from a country which has seen many protests the past 4 years, know this the Turkish protests are very different and much more "pure". There's no foreign play no nothing, just a populace fighting for their freedom.

[Ack]

I do not think islamists has to do anything with dictatorship , I think its just an excuse. What I believe is that there are outsiders (ex.China Russia) that are involved with the internal politics of the islamic countries because it serves their benefits.

Ah, but you must also realize that you have Islamist nations doing this to each other. What happens in Syria right now also involves power plays between Saudi Arabia and Iran for control in the region. It's not just world powers that are involved, it's regional ones as well. Consider the war in Iraq, for instance: yes, the US was there fighting directly against insurgent forces. Who trained and armed those insurgent forces? Well, Iran played a large part of it. Iran continued to exacerbate a situation, knowing full well that the Iraqis were getting killed because of their policy, because they wanted to hurt the US both politically and militarily while elevating their position within both the region and around the world. As for Assad, his dictatorship is helped by Iranian support, arms, equipment, and direct military aid.

A new PM get voted in say Libya, along comes Frances and drops $30m in his pocket because he will sign a contract to sell France oil barrels for 50% off. Some one notices this and then he want "in" and if he gets denied he becomes the opposition. All this will lead to internal political instability cause economy to go down rising things like unemployment and expensive healthcare. BOOM new revolution. Outsiders CREATE the dictator . This is a very simple basic fictional example of how things work.

I think you should take a moment to notice in your post that, while foreign influence plays a big part, you also hit on personal greed and powerlust taking a part of it. It's not just the international community causing this through bribery, it's also the individuals involved desiring more money, power, and arms. This isn't unique to a single country, it's sadly human nature. The problem comes from both without and within.

We all know the old tactic of causing wars/tension in certain parts of the world because countries involved will buy weapons in BILLIONS of dollars. Weapons they dont need and will never use. All this political hysteria and death of innocent just so the corrupted capitalist/politician somewhere else in the world would make a buck.

Not entirely accurate. While we may prefer to think that war is entirely about economics, it's also about damaging enemies, PR, and keeping rivals occupied. The US sold arms to both sides during the Iraq-Iran war in the 1980s. There are several reasons why we did this: we made money (which was your argument), but we also helped keep the conflict going, causing further damage to two nations we considered our enemies. This is a viable tactic, to get one's enemies to go to war with each other to sap their strength, damage their infrastructure, and also simply to keep them occupied. If Iran fights a war with a neighbor, do they then spend time spying on Israel or attempting to harass or kill Americans internationally? No, they concentrate on their war effort!

Also, the Iraqis and Iranians proved they are willing to use any weapon we sell them, regardless of consequences. America sold the plans to Iraq to construct chemical weapons in the 1980s. Europe sold Iraq the materials to manufacture them. Iraq immediately constructed and used those chemical weapons in 1988 against the Kurds. I don't believe we have since sold the Iraqis any chemical weapons plans.

[RCBH928]

I was talking about Turkey. No one thinks of it when they speak of "Islamic world", but with their Islamist prime minister the country was getting there. The asshole even said that the protests were being spurred by "foreign powers".

As someone who is from a country which has seen many protests the past 4 years, know this the Turkish protests are very different and much more "pure". There's no foreign play no nothing, just a populace fighting for their freedom.

I am not sure what you mean by "pure" , and the guy you refer to as an asshole seems to have doubled Turkey's economy in 10 years , he doesn't seem too bad for me. Of course I do not defend him, but maybe you have the wrong idea about him?

@Ack

1- Yes, I do not exclude the involvement of other islamist nations , but then who is pushing those other islamist nations? Sometimes if we draw this in an infogram , we might see circles happening because in the end I think it revolves around few major players.

2- Invoking greed and powerlust is the door used to control countries , you do not have to bribe a whole population. Just the guy running things around, especially when it is faced with stuff like "If you refuse our offer, just remember what we did to Gadafi " .

3-Actually it is correct but incomplete , you added that politics play a role in it too which I do agree on. Of course, I have to salute the intelligent plan of the US and double face-palm about what the Iraqis and Iranians did (killing each other while benefiting their enemy financially) . I would like to add, I do not support non of the 2 governments , not back then nor now.

[RCBH928]

There is news that a war would launch in the next few days on Syria and Hezboallah . America finally decided to give weapons to the rebels and the 90 or so year old King of Saudia Arabia has returned early from his vacation due to "issues" in the region .

Not sure what is going to happen , but where I live , we might be attacked by Iran if Saudia Arabia strike Syria. In case you didnt know , we are a tiny country that is smaller than a dot in the world map , few rockets and we are over. Not to mention, I believe we host the American 5th fleet

http://www.cusnc.navy.mil/

If Iran stikes us , it WILL strike the fleet . Or the US can leave with their ships and let us die...

[Ack]

There is news that a war would launch in the next few days on Syria and Hezboallah . America finally decided to give weapons to the rebels and the 90 or so year old King of Saudia Arabia has returned early from his vacation due to "issues" in the region .

Not sure what is going to happen , but where I live , we might be attacked by Iran if Saudia Arabia strike Syria. In case you didnt know , we are a tiny country that is smaller than a dot in the world map , few rockets and we are over. Not to mention, I believe we host the American 5th fleet

http://www.cusnc.navy.mil/

If Iran stikes us , it WILL strike the fleet . Or the US can leave with their ships and let us die...

Iran may go for the fleet, but I don't see much reason in attacking Bahrain beyond using the territory for a base to strike at Saudi Arabia. You have few natural resources worth taking, little in the way of a military, and no arms with which to provide to the Saudis. If anything, the only thing you have to justify you as a target is a location. So Iran may go after the US naval base there, but will likely be more interested in conquering it than destroying it, and even less interested in attacking the civilians in Bahrain.

Just keep your head down and keep away from any military or vital government offices or outposts.

[Ack]

I live very close to the main head office of the army

Bahrain has been proclaimed many times as Iranian soil , at one time there was a empty seat in the Iranian parliament for Bahrain which I am not sure if it still exists.

In the 2011 incidents , Iran was heavily involved , at one time there were news of thousands of Iranian boats ready to come and take over Bahrain if a successful revolution happened. I think its a about one hour by boat and you can reach Iranian sea borders ...

Ah, interesting. I didn't know Iran considered it a disputed territory.

[ZeroAX]

I am not sure what you mean by "pure" , and the guy you refer to as an asshole seems to have doubled Turkey's economy in 10 years , he doesn't seem too bad for me. Of course I do not defend him, but maybe you have the wrong idea about him?

Nope the man is a total coucou. Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmYog5DszEI

Just saying...

[RCBH928]

I see where you are coming from but let us not forget that Hitler was man of the year according to American Time magazine , which featured Staling twice, Khumieni of Iran, Churchil, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Karter and Regan.

I think the guys that lost are portrayed as evil and the guys that won are portrayed as the saviors . In a parallel universe, what if Hitler won the war? Would Churchil be the blood sucking politician ?