Interesting, somewhat brief retrospective on Final Fantasy 7

[Retrogamer0001]

Disagree. Unless you played the game upon release back in 1997, you have no idea the impact that moment had on the game/story. A main character dying, WHAT? That had never happened before.

Well, aside from

General Leo, Shadow, Chrono, Galuf, Tellah, Maxim, Selan, Guy, Artea, etc.

I guess you're right (though I don't remember Chrono dying - was that in one of the many endings to Chrono Trigger?) but I guess Aeris stuck out to me as the main one because of the cutscenes. Actually getting to WATCH her die as opposed to simply SEEING it in 2D (like many of the SNES characters you mentioned) made the experience more real and thus more influential to me. You're right though.

[Ack]

I guess you're right (though I don't remember Chrono dying - was that in one of the many endings to Chrono Trigger?) but I guess Aeris stuck out to me as the main one because of the cutscenes. Actually getting to WATCH her die as opposed to simply SEEING it in 2D (like many of the SNES characters you mentioned) made the experience more real and thus more influential to me. You're right though.

No, it was actually a major plot point towards the end of the game in Chrono Trigger. I think it's time for a replay!

Anyway, I disagree that seeing it in 2D versus 3D increased the effect. For me, it was more about character development. Have you played through Lufia 2? I highly recommend you do. The emotional impact of that game's final moments were much more wrenching than the death of Aeris for me. I'll be nice and spoiler tag this, since it is a pivotal moment in the series:

The entire party finishes the final boss, but the lead, Maxim, spends too much power in preventing the floating city from collapsing onto a kingdom. Too weak to continue, he orders the rest of his party to leave him behind. Guy and Artea initially refuse, but Maxim demands they go to tell the world what has happened. However, Selan, Maxim's lover, refuses to leave. Guy and Artea do make it and live long lives telling the world what Maxim did. But Maxim and Selan never escape the island and die together. At this point, Maxim has been the main character for the entire game, and you've watched how he has not only grown up, but fallen in love with Selan.

As the city collapses, and Maxim and Selan die, they see the people of the world and their reactions. Most heart wrenching is Tia, Maxim's childhood friend who has loved him all her life, who is sobbing but doesn't understand why, not realizing that Maxim is dead.

Because of the nature of the games, Lufia 2 takes place before Lufia, which is set many years later. Guy dies of old age in Lufia, but not after discovering that the enemies his friends sacrificed themselves to defeat have instead returned.

To me, it doesn't matter that all of the above occurs in only 2D. The emotional impact of that was much more powerful, considering the time and investment I had in the characters. With Aeris, the connection wasn't as strong (it also didn't help that I didn't often use her in combat, as I felt she was too weak to make a party mainstay). That said, one of my friends made her the centerpiece of his party in the game, and when she died, he was wrecked. I don't believe he ever finished the game.

[Opa Opa]

FF7

I was never able to connect with any of the characters in 7 with the exception of Barret. I thought Barret's story was pretty well developed. (I'm going off of memory so take that for whatever it's worth).

But yeah, what's-her-name dying had no impact on me whatsoever. She sucked in combat and when she died I thought "good, now I don't have to worry about being forced to use her in combat again."

[Retrogamer0001]

I guess you're right (though I don't remember Chrono dying - was that in one of the many endings to Chrono Trigger?) but I guess Aeris stuck out to me as the main one because of the cutscenes. Actually getting to WATCH her die as opposed to simply SEEING it in 2D (like many of the SNES characters you mentioned) made the experience more real and thus more influential to me. You're right though.

No, it was actually a major plot point towards the end of the game in Chrono Trigger. I think it's time for a replay!

Anyway, I disagree that seeing it in 2D versus 3D increased the effect. For me, it was more about character development. Have you played through Lufia 2? I highly recommend you do. The emotional impact of that game's final moments were much more wrenching than the death of Aeris for me. I'll be nice and spoiler tag this, since it is a pivotal moment in the series:

The entire party finishes the final boss, but the lead, Maxim, spends too much power in preventing the floating city from collapsing onto a kingdom. Too weak to continue, he orders the rest of his party to leave him behind. Guy and Artea initially refuse, but Maxim demands they go to tell the world what has happened. However, Selan, Maxim's lover, refuses to leave. Guy and Artea do make it and live long lives telling the world what Maxim did. But Maxim and Selan never escape the island and die together. At this point, Maxim has been the main character for the entire game, and you've watched how he has not only grown up, but fallen in love with Selan.

As the city collapses, and Maxim and Selan die, they see the people of the world and their reactions. Most heart wrenching is Tia, Maxim's childhood friend who has loved him all her life, who is sobbing but doesn't understand why, not realizing that Maxim is dead.

Because of the nature of the games, Lufia 2 takes place before Lufia, which is set many years later. Guy dies of old age in Lufia, but not after discovering that the enemies his friends sacrificed themselves to defeat have instead returned.

To me, it doesn't matter that all of the above occurs in only 2D. The emotional impact of that was much more powerful, considering the time and investment I had in the characters. With Aeris, the connection wasn't as strong (it also didn't help that I didn't often use her in combat, as I felt she was too weak to make a party mainstay). That said, one of my friends made her the centerpiece of his party in the game, and when she died, he was wrecked. I don't believe he ever finished the game.

It's actually on my Summer Challenge list of games to play, haha. My last Chrono Trigger playthrough was summer 2005, so it's definitely time for a refresher. I have Lufia 2 sitting on my shelf right now but haven't played it yet - we'll see how much time I have once my initial summer list is completed.

[Ack]

It's actually on my Summer Challenge list of games to play, haha. My last Chrono Trigger playthrough was summer 2005, so it's definitely time for a refresher. I have Lufia 2 sitting on my shelf right now but haven't played it yet - we'll see how much time I have once my initial summer list is completed.

Haha, I admit that's the reason I'm playing through Chrono Trigger right now! But yeah, once summer ends, I highly recommend Lufia 2. It's an incredible game which deserves far more recognition than it got.

[ZeroAX]

No, actually, that's not what I'm saying at all - I'm saying that people that have only played the game ten years after release can't realistically judge how special and influential FF7 was during that time period. I also disagree with your statement that all the game did was popularize the genre in the west... it has frequently and consistently shown up on "Best Game" lists since release. Yes, it brought RPGs to the mainstream audiences, but you can't trivialize that - it takes a groundbreaking gaming experience to do that.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "cinematic feeling being a bad design choice"? Putting short movie sequences in video games was the next logical step - if FF7 didn't do it, another game obviously would have. Also, can you honestly say that a moment like Aeris being killed by Sephiroth would have been so intense/incredible if it hadn't have been shown the way it was?

But the thing is that I played FF7 only 5 years after it was released and was not amazed by it. I played FF6 10 years after release and I went crazy for it. I just think that 6 did many things first, did them better (too lazy to reply about the Aeris thing right now, I'll reply on it later and why I think FF6's deaths had a heavier impact, ok mate?) and didn't need FMVs to make me feel things.


And if you check the "best movies of all time" lists on imdb you will hardly see any groundbreaking movies which introduced to the world innovative camera uses and direction choices. Simply put "best of all time" == most popular for most people.

Heck I understand why Sonic 2 is considered objectively the best sonic game, but I still rank Sonic and Knuckles higher because of personal taste and nostalgia. It's no bad thing, but I don't get shocked when people rank it lower than Sonic 2. (now Sonic 3 being ranked higher is just insulting ).

Seeing how CoD brought the FPS to the masses of console gamers, no I disagree that it takes a groundbreaking game to make a genre popular.

What I mean is that it started JRPGs (and specially the FF series itself) down on the path of more epic set pieces and less subtle world building and memorable moments.

7-9 did not suffer from it imo, but 10 and onwards did.


And yes I can say that the death of that character would have been more memorable if it wasn't in an FMV video. Firstly it would probably be spoiled less, and secondly....come on, the CGI videos on FF7 were still pretty bad. They weren't really any good till 8. In 7 the characters just looked like weird puppets. You could get more emotional impact out of a sprite imo



Now as for the story impact of the scene itself, I will share my opinion on it later.