Xbox One

[MrPopo]

I'm curious because I saw this mentioned elsewhere, but isn't what Microsoft doing technically manipulating the first sale doctrine?

Of course, leave it to Microsoft to figure out all of the loopholes with their highly paid legal staff.

That's where the whole "Games are licensed, not sold" thing comes in

It's actually not a restriction on First Sale Doctrine in any way. You're free to purchase the disc, then sell it to your friend. The Xbox hardware is what's putting in restrictions: it does not allow unlicensed software to run.

And again, this already has precedent with retail releases of Steamworks games. I buy a copy of X-COM in the store, I have a disc, I can sell that disc to someone else after I've installed it, but they're probably not going to be happy with what I've sold them since I already tied the key to my Steam account.

And yet people are claiming that they'd rather have the Steambox over the new Xbox, even though they're the same damn thing. In fact, the Xbox has a mechanism for you to get money back for old games, which Steam does not.

[ZeroAX]

When has a product that focuses more on the needs and wants of the company making it and its partners (3rd party publishers), and not on the needs and wants of the consumer succeeded?

This thing will bomb worse than the Zune.

[RCBH928]

@ZenErik

I like the idea of 1 IP per console lifetime like Skyrim where they put their whole effort into one game, we get a better game and their chances of success is higher than making 5 Skyrims.

Skyrim isn't a new IP, it's the sequel to Oblivion.

I realize this , my point was that each IP should have 1 release per console life OR 1 at launch and the second by the end of a console's lifetime . In case of oblivion it was released on 2006 and Skyrim 2011 5 years apart so it fits the second description.

ZenErik, I know it has glitches but it is a triple A title isn't it?

@dsheinem

I was refering to ZeroAX post

Games struggled to make a profit during this gen. Next gen games are going to be even more expensive, so you need as big an audience as possible to make the games have a higher chance of being profitable.

The more expensive games they make the more struggling they will have imo . Instead of making four expensive titles per generation (Assassin Creed 1-2-3-4) they should keep it down to 1 or 2. That way more buzz and excitement will be around the title. Thats what Metal Gear and Mario has been doing any way. While Mario's face show on many games , the Mario platformer is usually 1 title per console (Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1+2 ) . I believe GT follows same path.

I as a customer will NOT buy 4 Assassin Creed's per console for example , there are many other games I'd like to experience.

@ZeroAX

Sony has been trying to translate its bigger games into obscure languages (getting Sly Cooper 4 and the latest God of War in Greek amazed me, since those games don't really sell that well here to justify the costs, the way some football titles do), and tapping into new markets (anyone remember the PS2's efforts to expand in the Middle East?) to further expand its userbade.

Playstation is synonymous with gaming console now in the Middle East, its no longer "He is playing Nintendo" . As a matter of fact I am not sure if any one still remembers Nintedo, I believe most look at it as a kids (4-12) toy.

At first many early jumpers to next gen. were crazy over the 360 and its online multiplayer but once the favorite brand , Playstation was out, with free online everyone jumped shipped. Even those biased towards the 360 jumped ship because all their friends are on the PSN.

I also would like to add online multiplayer moved people from pirating to buying legit. I hardly know some one who buys original ps2 games , pirated ones at priced for $3-5 were much more popular . This generation everyone waned to play online , and even though the 360 is hackable to run pirated games hardly any one chooses that path. I find such tactics are much better to end piracy than getting on the nerves of customers with stuff like DRM and online registration.

[Niode]

I'm curious because I saw this mentioned elsewhere, but isn't what Microsoft doing technically manipulating the first sale doctrine?

Of course, leave it to Microsoft to figure out all of the loopholes with their highly paid legal staff.

That's where the whole "Games are licensed, not sold" thing comes in

It's actually not a restriction on First Sale Doctrine in any way. You're free to purchase the disc, then sell it to your friend. The Xbox hardware is what's putting in restrictions: it does not allow unlicensed software to run.

And again, this already has precedent with retail releases of Steamworks games. I buy a copy of X-COM in the store, I have a disc, I can sell that disc to someone else after I've installed it, but they're probably not going to be happy with what I've sold them since I already tied the key to my Steam account.

And yet people are claiming that they'd rather have the Steambox over the new Xbox, even though they're the same damn thing. In fact, the Xbox has a mechanism for you to get money back for old games, which Steam does not.

The difference is that steam games are dirt fucking cheap. When your system works so well that you actually stop people pirating games because you get a noticeably less frustrating experience when using Steam than you do from the pirated games it's fair to say the system works. I understand the limitations of Steam as a DRM platform but I don't mind because of the convenience factor. I don't have to hunt down patches, I don't have to update my graphics drivers, installing is a 3 or 4 click process. I would rather buy a game on Steam than on GOG for example. Simply because it integrates all those features. If GOG released a client as functionality rich as Steam then there would be an issue, however there is no better alternative out there currently. What Microsoft are doing, whilst no different fundamentally to Steam -DRM wise, costs more, is less convenient and provides a worse experience overall than Steam. That's why people are against it. It's not better (in fact it's worse) and it costs more. It's that simple.

[env963]

The whole xbox one almost makes me want to vomit. There wont be any retro games after the servers shut off. I wonder if Sony will do the same with used games as Microsoft.

[dsheinem]

and it costs more. It's that simple.

Except we don't know this yet.

[Jmustang1968]

Many steam games start out at or near full price. We see them drop prices after some time and big time on their infamous sales. You cant alos compare the $5 indie games to the $60 blockbusters. Pc games are still heavily pirated.

Do I think XB1 games will be as cheap as steam, especially during sales? No. However, they will be sold more at retail. Retail stores like amazon, gamestop, and the big box retailers will start cutting prices. So we will see how the market responds. It very well may push the XB1 model out, or it can adapt.

[dogman91]

Well I can safely say there is no way in hell I'm buying this ever. Unless it get's hacked or something I'd like to know whatever game I buy is mine to keep after the servers go off. Hopefully anything good will also be on PS4 or WiiU

[MrPopo]

Well I can safely say there is no way in hell I'm buying this ever. Unless it get's hacked or something I'd like to know whatever game I buy is mine to keep after the servers go off. Hopefully anything good will also be on PS4 or WiiU

You do realize that this model is the inevitable future, right? PC has gone that way, Xbox is going this way, and it's only a matter of time before Nintendo and Sony follow suit. There's just too much benefit for companies to do this, and the fact that Steam hasn't crashed and burned, and in fact has been massively successful, tells me that models like GOG will be the outlier, rather than the norm.

[Niode]

and it costs more. It's that simple.

Except we don't know this yet.

Yes we do. Xbox Live costs money. Having a Steam account does not. Fact.