Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

[Menegrothx]

- All JRPGs are terrible. I play them and enjoy them, but they're bad.

Uhhhhhhh..........

It makes sense though. If you're not gonna have any roleplaying in your roleplaying game and just want to tell a linear story, why bother with all the level grinding and a turn based battle system that really doesn't have any of the depth of a turn based strategy game (or SRPG), when you could tell the same story much more efficiently by turning the game into an action adventure/visual novel/platformer/first person shooter/real time strategy/[insert genre here] game? All that extra padding and grinding means is that it takes 2-3 times more to beat the game, and thus makes it less likely that many people will want to play the game from start to finish. During the 1980s and early/mid 1990 JRPGs, especially among console games (PCs had WRPG, text adventure and point&click adventure), were great because they could tell stories other genres couldn't, but nowadays game design has moved past that point. All kinds of different game genres can tell great stories if they want to, just look at Portal for example. The tired old formula that most RPGs (both J and W) follow is detrimental to most games.

Many very enjoyable games are from game design point of view substandard or even horrible.

[AppleQueso]

Many very enjoyable games are from game design point of view substandard or even horrible.

Shouldn't that depend on the design goals?

Saying a game is enjoyable, yet is designed badly, seems a bit dishonest. If it's enjoyable, it's obviously doing something right.

[Menegrothx]

Many very enjoyable games are from game design point of view substandard or even horrible.

Shouldn't that depend on the design goals?

Saying a game is enjoyable, yet is designed badly, seems a bit dishonest. If it's enjoyable, it's obviously doing something right.

Well, there's plenty of JRPGs I've enjoyed playing that were poorly designed in some areas. Music, story, well written characters and beautiful scenery made the games enjoyable. But the actual game mechanics are antiquated. Even battles are often enjoyable to a certain extent, but after you've been hammering attack attack heal for 8 consecutive hours, the gameplay starts to get really repetitive and those random battles really annoying. Not to mention how predictable many unskippable conversations and cutscenes (that make a large part of the game) are, and even the general structure of the story. Go from town A to dungeon A, then to town B and so on. I really don't see a reason why I must dedicate 20 hours of my life to a game before it allows me to try alchemy.
Like I said in that last post: most RPGs follow the same old tired formula.

[AppleQueso]

Many very enjoyable games are from game design point of view substandard or even horrible.

Shouldn't that depend on the design goals?

Saying a game is enjoyable, yet is designed badly, seems a bit dishonest. If it's enjoyable, it's obviously doing something right.

Well, there's plenty of JRPGs I've enjoyed playing that were poorly designed in some areas. Music, story and art made the games nice. But the actual game mechanics are antiquated. Go from town A to dungeon A, then to town B and so on. I really don't see a reason why I must dedicate 20 hours of my life to this game before it allows me to try alchemy. Like I said in that last post: most RPGs follow the same old tired formula.

That's all fine and all I suppose. I just don't feel that the quality of a game should be determined by a formula where you just punch in the flaws and what it does well and spit out a result. It's not just about the sum of its parts. Sometimes excelling in one area can help mask problems in another area, and its ability to do that should absolutely be taken into account when evaluating a game as a whole.

...of course I'm not crazy about a lot of JRPGs either.

[ZeoDefender]

Excellent posts Menegrothx. You explained that far better than I could have.

[Retronomy]

Many very enjoyable games are from game design point of view substandard or even horrible.

Shouldn't that depend on the design goals?

Saying a game is enjoyable, yet is designed badly, seems a bit dishonest. If it's enjoyable, it's obviously doing something right.

Well, there's plenty of JRPGs I've enjoyed playing that were poorly designed in some areas. Music, story, well written characters and beautiful scenery made the games enjoyable. But the actual game mechanics are antiquated. Even battles are often enjoyable to a certain extent, but after you've been hammering attack attack heal for 8 consecutive hours, the gameplay starts to get really repetitive and those random battles really annoying. Not to mention how predictable many unskippable conversations and cutscenes (that make a large part of the game) are, and even the general structure of the story. Go from town A to dungeon A, then to town B and so on. I really don't see a reason why I must dedicate 20 hours of my life to a game before it allows me to try alchemy.
Like I said in that last post: most RPGs follow the same old tired formula.

This all sounds convincing until you apply that same logic to other genres.
Platformers: All you do is press the jump button, really!
Shmups: dodge and shoot, yawn~
Point and Click Adventure: You... point and click.
...
RPG: Attack, heal, walk, repeat.

In reality regardless of the genre the game takes core established gameplay mechanics and adds it's own spin or flavour to it, and that's what makes them fun. Repetition isn't bad if it's applied in new ways, and is in fact what makes most things in life enjoyable. Do task, recieve reward. Do task again, recieve reward again. This is what fun is.

But, eh, unpopular opinion topic. And I do agree with your assessment. Over time I too have been burnt out on jrpgs in general. I still manage to find one or two that I really get into, but they're usually very creative in their battle systems.

[Violent By Design]

This all sounds convincing until you apply that same logic to other genres.
Platformers: All you do is press the jump button, really!
Shmups: dodge and shoot, yawn~
Point and Click Adventure: You... point and click.
...
RPG: Attack, heal, walk, repeat.

In reality regardless of the genre the game takes core established gameplay mechanics and adds it's own spin or flavour to it, and that's what makes them fun. Repetition isn't bad if it's applied in new ways, and is in fact what makes most things in life enjoyable. Do task, recieve reward. Do task again, recieve reward again. This is what fun is.

But, eh, unpopular opinion topic. And I do agree with your assessment. Over time I too have been burnt out on jrpgs in general. I still manage to find one or two that I really get into, but they're usually very creative in their battle systems.

In regards to turn based rpgs, I think there is certainly a point against them. While it is true that you do the same thing in most genres, most genres usually revolve around either action, strategy or puzzle solving - hence one is actually playing a game with depth.

An RPG's main selling point is its narrative, yet there are many RPGs which make you take on all of these arbitrary and random battles in order to extend the length of the game. These fights require no skill or any real deep thought in order to complete. So in some ways, he is correct in that many RPGs could just be made into actual adventure games which are obviously a much more narrative based genre (well, if the game in itself is narrative based and not just based on puzzle solving).

[Valkyrie-Favor]

An RPG's main selling point is its narrative.

No, it's not. Not for everyone. I play RPGs because I enjoy them as games! If I want to see a terrible anime, I can watch that. Or I can watch a good one.

I'm not playing Dragon Warrior III for its story. It's the survivalist challenge where dungeons are terrifying and resources are scarce. I'm not playing Yggdra Union for its story I'm playing it for unfair battles with Union tactics and long-term growth planning. I'm playing Final Fantasy XII for the dungeons, not its mess of a plot. RPGs have a lot more to offer and I think that's why most gamers play them.

[MrEco]

I hate the Uncharted games with a burning passion. The only redeeming quality I see in them is good writing and pretty good voice acting.

The gameplay is completely generic and uninspired, being little more than a third person cover shooter with some occasional platforming segments that feel practically on-rails. And even among the generic cover shooter crowd it doesn't even have the interesting weapon selection of other games in the genre (Chainsaw bayonet anyone?), and instead you only have boring modern day weapons to use.

The stories are entertaining to a point. That point being until you realize that you could watch any of the Indiana Jones movies and get the same experience, but better in every way. They get to the point faster instead of making you wallow through gameplay segments, they're even better written, they have far more charm and originality, and of course...

The character's in Uncharted are completely unbearable. This is probably my biggest gripe with the series. Not a single character is at all likable. Yes Drake is quite funny sometimes, but that hardly excuses the fact that he is enormously annoying the rest of the time. Every character beside's him has a paper thin personality and is even harder to put up with.

[ZeoDefender]

I hate the Uncharted games with a burning passion. The only redeeming quality I see in them is good writing and pretty good voice acting.

I knew I forgot to post something in my list. Yeah, I completely agree with you here.