My Saturn Shiz

[TheRev]

Garou... hard to argue how good that was.

It's a solid port (although not quite on par with the PS2 Release). I'd go with the JPN release.

Last Blade 2. It kinda runs funny on my Dreamcasts now, if I could get the modded one working again I'd be set

Can you elaborate

I have the PS2 Garou as well as the XBLA release. My Go to Garou?

MAME

Last Blade 2 which is the Japanese version running using the Gameshark boot method has this weird black line in the lower right corner of my screen.

I'm not going to try to rob you of the right to an opinion, but as far as your comparisons go, I'm just not sure of their efficacy. It's fine to like the Saturn over the Dreamcast--in many ways I do as well--but if you're going to do straight comparisons of the number of titles in any given genre, or by publisher, you're already omitting things.

It's also missing the point. You posited that the Saturn has a wide selection of games while the Dreamcast does not, to which I questioned, what genre is not represented in the Dreamcast library? There is a dearth of RPGs on the Dreamcast, but the genre is still represented with quality titles.


Also, if you're looking for Action games, there are a number in the list of first-party games. Beyond those, there are the Resident Evil games, Dino Crisis, MDK2, Fur Fighters, Shadow Man, Soul Reaver, etc and so on.

Debate has never quite been my area of expertise. at least Debate that doesn't end in childish name calling. BUT I like you guys so none of that.

Anyway's the games you listed I'll give my opinion on since I do have quite a few of those.

Dynamite Cop- It and it's Saturn prequel are on my list of things to get.

Zombie Revenge- For a short time I had a burn of this game. It was an interesting beat em up. I need to spend more time with it.

Chu Chu Rocket- Fun game innovative for it's time but I never really got into it.

Phantasy Star Online- I'll get back to you

Virtua Fighter 3TB- I have both the Import and the US Version.. both refuse to run on both my Dreamcasts. I do have a burn and I think (as do many others) this could have been ported better. I like the changes it brought to the Series and wish they'd revist the dodge button but I think the Saturn Port of VF2 is the purer VF Experence.

Skies of Arcadia- Haven't Played, I hear the Gamecube version is better.

Napple Tale- TAKES FOREVER to get going. I need to set sometime aside to really dig into it.

The House of the Dead/Confidential Mission- since I'm not sure my TV and Lightguns will play nice I haven't played this

Cosmic Smash- Talk about your under the radar games. It's fun for 5 minutes Decent though

D2- Tank controls how I HATE YOU

Virtual On- Toss up as to which Virtual on I prefer I don't have the first on Saturn yet, I do have the first on my PS2. and VOOT on both DC and 360. I love the series as a whole.

F355 Challenge- Impressive but I just can't get into it.

Sega Rally 2- REALLY hard to call which I like better. This or the Saturn prequel. Both are damn impressive.

Fighting Vipers 2- In THEORY this is an improved sequel... But it lacks Pepsi man.

Furai no Shiren Gaiden/Ooga Booga/Seaman/Typing of the Dead- haven't played

Outtrigger- REALLY awkward to control.

Rez- I have it on PS2 and 360 but not on Dreamcast. Considering I don't have a rumble pack for my DC I think alot would be lost.

Space Channel 5 / ep2- I lack the Thumb- Eye coordination to get too far in either. Great music though.

Samba de Amigo / 2000- I'm a fan but I need to get the Maracas to get the most out of them.

I know that doesn't answer your "What does the Saturn have that the dreamcast doesn't" question But it does give some insight.

Some of it too is just how alot of Dreamcast games haven't aged that well. Sword of the Bezerk and D2 being my biggest offenders.

I still have 2 years of having it need to spend some time with Blue Stinger.

[CD AGES]

Dynamite Cop- It and it's Saturn prequel are on my list of things to get.

I LOVE DC on DC!!! To me its the best 3D beatemup I have ever played. Lots of interactivity, weapons, a solid grapple system and an even more ambitious combo system. Its prequel on the Saturn hasn't aged too well but still fun.

Skies of Arcadia- Haven't Played, I hear the Gamecube version is better.

DC version is still the better port with 640x480 res and better audio quality overall.

The House of the Dead/Confidential Mission- since I'm not sure my TV and Lightguns will play nice I haven't played this

The best 2 lightgun games on the system. So much fun especially if you are into the genre.

Sega Rally 2- REALLY hard to call which I like better. This or the Saturn prequel. Both are damn impressive.

Yes. I preferred the Saturn version until I finally got the PS2 port.

Outtrigger- REALLY awkward to control.

But worth learning in the longrun. It's a very good game once you get used to the controls. Perhaps one of the best looking games on the system.

Rez- I have it on PS2 and 360 but not on Dreamcast. Considering I don't have a rumble pack for my DC I think alot would be lost.

Same here. But still look forward to the day I find myself a copy on DC.

Some of it too is just how alot of Dreamcast games haven't aged that well. Sword of the Bezerk and D2 being my biggest offenders.

Idk, I think its quite the contrary on a good majority on the system.

[TheRev]

The other thing that irks me is how many people say the Dreamcast is the BEST SYSTEM EVAR! But have no real basis as for why. There were only about 200 games released in the US some good, Most bad If I could get a scan of my US checklist you'll see just how many games I have blacked out due to them just being poor quality games.

I was at one point thinking of getting a complete NTSC U set of Dreamcast games, but I Quickly learned just how much crap is on the system, or games that haven't aged well.

OH I also forgot the Dreamcast controller. I was never a fan I wish Sega had stuck with the Design they had for the Saturn Analog controller, and maybe added a 2nd stick to it, so Controllers are another reason I prefer the Saturn.

At this point how many games are still exclusive to the Dreamcast VS the Saturn? I think the only ported Saturn games are Guardian Heroes, Nights and Radiant Silvergun, maybe a handful more to the PS2 in the form of the Sega Ages series.

[AppleQueso]

The other thing that irks me is how many people say the Dreamcast is the BEST SYSTEM EVAR! But have no real basis as for why. There were only about 200 games released in the US some good, Most bad If I could get a scan of my US checklist you'll see just how many games I have blacked out due to them just being poor quality games.

I was at one point thinking of getting a complete NTSC U set of Dreamcast games, but I Quickly learned just how much crap is on the system, or games that haven't aged well.

Welcome to the complete library of every system ever.

[TheRev]

Welcome to the complete library of every system ever.

The lower the game count is for the system I think the worse it is. To be fair there are a ton of turds and overrated slop on the N64 too.

The Main Reason I got a Dreamcast was so I could have Street Fighter III and New Generation and 2nd Impact remain Exclusive to the Dreamcast. I also got Marvel VS Capcom 2 with my system.

Like I said. Dreamcast was a Capcom Lover's wet dream. But so was the Saturn. There are pockets of people who swear by the Saturn Port of Street Fighter Zero 3 over the Dreamcast version. I could go either way honestly I might give Street Fighter Zero 3 to the Saturn as it has the Dreamcast Roster, but the Playstation features and I do prefer
the Playstation version of the World tour mode over the Dreamcast version of the World tour mode.

[pierrot]

Skies of Arcadia- Haven't Played, I hear the Gamecube version is better.

As AGES mentioned, no VGA mode in the Gamecube port, and the audio is monaural audio only. 'Better' is relative. The Gamecube port has the DLC pre-programmed into the disc, and adds some extra pirate battles, that are interesting, but hardly make the port better. The DLC can still be found online for the Dreamcast port, so the only other thing is that the encounter rate was toned down in the GC port. If you wanted a slightly easier version, then I guess the GC port is 'better.' I don't find that the degraded visual and audio quality are worth it, though.


Also, could you give any examples of the 'crap' that's 'rampant' on the DC? A lot of gems are gems because they don't seem like something that would be worth playing, and get a bad rep because of it.

[mjmjr25]

The lower the game count is for the system I think the worse it is. To be fair there are a ton of turds and overrated slop on the N64 too.

That's a pretty baseless assumption and its a contradiction of what you said earlier (that saturn was better). There are more US DC games (closer to 260 official US releases, not 200 as you mentioned). Saturn US releases are less at 244 (not including variants of the same title).

So by that logic alone:
Genesis>Gamecube>N64>Dreamcast>Saturn

^Which is an exact reverse as i'd personally rate them.

As for crap on a system - as a percentage, i'd argue there is more "crap" on the larger library systems.

[TheRev]

Let's see horrible Dreamcast games:

Spirit of Speed 1937
Who want's to Beat up a Millionare
KISS: Psycho Circus (Licensed schlock from the band that is famous for whoring themselves)
Tokyo Bus Guide (it's not a horrible game becuase it's a horrible game.... It's just the exact opposite of Crazy Taxi and gets really redundant)
Evil Twin I didn't care for
Fighting Force 2
Dave Mirra BMX
Hoyle Casino
Soldier of Fortune
Ducati World
MTV Sports: Skateboarding
Incoming
Slave Zero
The Ring
Maken X
Wild Metal
Charge 'N Blast
102 Dalmations Puppies to the Rescue
Suzuki Alstare Racing
Chef's Love Shack
The Grinch
Moho
Worms Armageddon
Carrier
Kao the kangaroo
POD 2
The Rainbow Six games
Sydney 2000


I'm not going to list Soul Fighter as I understand a Gameshark can make it quite awesome.

I am basing that above list on consensus so if You see a game on that list you liked feel free to make your case for it.

[mjmjr25]

You just rattled off some of the most inventive / risk taking and visually stunning games in the library. If that's the crap then I wouldn't know where to begin.

Evil Twin is like a dark version of Mario 64 with better camera and character controls.

Tokyo Bus Guide should not be in conversation with Crazy Taxi, it isn't trying to be anything like that game.

Maken X / Carrier - not epic by any stretch, but every bit as good as the FPS stuff on similar systems at the time (Forsaken / Hexen, etc).

Fighting Force 2 is awful, yes. But the DC port was superior to N64, not nearly as clunky and graphics were of course better. So that is a knock on the game - not the system.

Of all the games listed, I think only "Incoming" would rank as crap.

I mean, yr listing things like Sydney Olympics and Hoyle Casino. Maybe those aren't your type of games - but they exist on all libraries on all major systems. What specifically makes Hoyle Casino worse than Golden Nugget? What makes Sydney Olympics crap compared with Nagano or Sydney 2000 on psx?

[pierrot]

Tokyo Bus Guide (it's not a horrible game becuase it's a horrible game.... It's just the exact opposite of Crazy Taxi and gets really redundant)
Evil Twin I didn't care for
Incoming

I'm going to respectfully disagree about these. All very solid games. Obviously not system sellers, but far from trash. Slave Zero, Wild Metal and Carrier are good depending on who you ask.

Maken X
Worms Armageddon

Say what now! These are both great games. Worms Armageddon is a great game to play with friends, and even fun to play alone. Maken X may throw people off with it's gameplay mechanics, but it's still classic MegaTen-esque Atlus.

Of your list, I think I could only agree that about ten or fewer are shovelware. I won't debate that the dreamcast has shoveleware--If you're not into dating sims and text+picture adventure games, then there's a lot of 'horrible' games on the import side--but I do believe there's a much better ratio of good : bad games than you're crediting it with.

Of all the games listed, I think only "Incoming" would rank as crap.

I like Incoming.... It's a pretty solid 3D shooter, if a little clunky mechanically.