No need to upgrade your PCs anymore

[AppleQueso]

I guess i finally have to give up on my CRT, time to move on with the times. Hopefully the N64 and VHS will still look ok on an HDTV.

VHS might be a lost cause, but N64 can look okay depending on the TV itself. Try and find an HDTV with an s-video port.

[vestcoat]

Hi guys. First time poster. Interesting thread.

I agree that there's not much reason to upgrade desktops anymore. A well-tuned machine with a simple P4 and 1GB ram is enough for most computer tasks. And one could easily build a tower with an i7 and an insane 32GB of ram and coast for the next 10+ years with minimal expansions.

That said, planned obsolescence is still alive and well; we just don't see it in desktops that much. The main market for disposable junk has moved to portable devices, where features we bought ten years ago are slowly being sold back to us in smaller, more convenient forms. People pay $500 for brand-new iPads with 16GB hard drives. Macbooks are still being sold with 5400RPM hard drives. iPhone cameras didn't match the megapixels of my cheap, five-year-old K-Mart camera until this year. The 1.4GHz CPU on my girlfriend's Gateway netbook has been a time-wasting nuisance since the day she bought it. The product life of laptops is decreasing as expansion slots become increasingly rare and manufacturers refuse to publish their service manuals. USB 3.0 is finally here and Thunderbolt looks exciting, but last year people were still buying thousand-dollar laptops with no e-sata, no Firewire, and no express slot, just USB 2.0. How long are they going to have patience for that? Cheap desktop technology is withheld from portable devices for as long as possible to keep the masses lining up outside the Apple store every two years.

PC users have had an easy decade, but we're not out of the woods yet. Fourteen years of glorious support for Windows XP wasn't due to any generosity on Microsoft's part. It was because of the mega failure and retraction of Windows Vista. Now that they've modeled the Mac numbering system of incremental OS upgrades and Windows 8 is around the corner, we can count on old hardware being phased out every five years.

[MrPopo]

That said, planned obsolescence is still alive and well;

You do realize there's a difference between planned obsolescence and technology improving, right?

[vestcoat]

That said, planned obsolescence is still alive and well;

You do realize there's a difference between planned obsolescence and technology improving, right?

What's your point? I laid out pretty clear examples of planned obsolescence.

[MrPopo]

That said, planned obsolescence is still alive and well;

You do realize there's a difference between planned obsolescence and technology improving, right?

What's your point? I laid out pretty clear examples of planned obsolescence.

Pretty sure you laid out exactly zero examples of planned obsolescence, and instead confused it with "technology getting better". For example, the reason it takes longer for technology to reach the portable sector is because desktops are wasteful in space and power. Portables need miniaturization to fit in their form factors and they need the features to be a low power draw so the battery lasts for longer than 30 minutes.

[isiolia]

Pretty sure you laid out exactly zero examples of planned obsolescence, and instead confused it with "technology getting better". For example, the reason it takes longer for technology to reach the portable sector is because desktops are wasteful in space and power. Portables need miniaturization to fit in their form factors and they need the features to be a low power draw so the battery lasts for longer than 30 minutes.

Well, no, he did give a fair number of examples of planned obsolescence. Not everything was - pretty sure, for example, that Macbook Pros ship with 5400rpm drives because Apple can save a buck doing it. If someone cares they can charge them more a 7200rpm drive or SSD.
At the very least, a lot of it is probably a mix of fatter profit margins now with more room to improve later.

Some would be a matter of technology though, sure. Tablet manufacturers might be skimping on flash memory deliberately, but it seems like they're putting in the latest CPU actually available to them. That part of the industry is just moving -fast-. It sucks that first-gen iPads already can't run some software, but the current hardware really is well beyond what was available when it came out.


The long-term support of XP had little to do with Vista, outside of the abnormally long development time. 2001 release for XP, 2007 for Vista. Much longer than other releases. Extended service is based on service pack releases. The 2014 date for XP's extended support is five years from SP3's release. That's all it is. Vista SP2 has extended support until 2017, 7 SP1 has extended support until 2020 (here).

I do think Windows 8 may mess things up some, with the RT and x86 releases and new API...but I don't think MS is going to change their general support terms unless they want to really mess up relations with business customers. Apple doesn't give a crap, they make their money on iOS, but MS makes bank on corporate users.

[RCBH928]

I am on Vestcoat on this one. It is planned obsolescence .

Although I love Apple for making devices that I have to tinker with all the time(Windows was more about fixing than using for me) , they deliberately makes your systems obsolete . For example, last year I bought an OS upgrade this year I cant use a simple feature like opening tabs on my iPad that are on my web browser on the laptop. I need to buy the new upgraded OS(even though its cheap...still) .

Apple also stops supporting their iOS devices just about 3 years into the future, by second year I bet there will be some apps your device won't be able to run.

Another example is that there is NO reason that Apple ships a $500 iPad and $700(contract free) phone with only 16GB while USB 64GB are sold today for $30. Its very easy to see that they do this just so that 5 years in the future they release a 32GB base model and say "UPGRADE!!" They will also bloat the size of iOS to 8 GB and tell you "Now that that iOS alone is 8GB, your 16GB iPads wont support it, gotta buy the new 32GB models...technology improved"

I believe all/most companies do this and they do it on purpose so they would stretch sales over a long span of years. They sell you in 7 years what they could have offered on day 1, ,because if they give it to you too early...what are they going to upgrade you to in year 3 or 5?

To be fair, Apple and the like need to do this to gain a continues stream of income to support their R&D. If you buy a phone in 2010 and expect support all the way up to 2017 , where would they fund 7 years of R&D from? Your 7 year old sale? In a lot of ways the price we are paying is for R&D not the hardware itself. Kind like an expensive medicine, its not expensive to manufacture , but the 10 years research went into it was.

@MrPopo

I know that technology needs time to get it into a small device and it is going to be more expensive, but dont you think we are paying a little too much for smartphones/tablets that are going to be updated next year and obsolete in about 4 years where for the same price you can buy a PC that will last you for the next decade?

Another thing I do not understand is software on them. I know I probably can't run Win7 or Crysis because it will take a lot of power but where is there no full Office Suite yet? I mean those things were available back in the mid 90's or 80s when PCs were like 33mhz , why cant my 1GHz dual core iPad cant do that?

[MrPopo]

@MrPopo

I know that technology needs time to get it into a small device and it is going to be more expensive, but dont you think we are paying a little too much for smartphones/tablets that are going to be updated next year and obsolete in about 4 years where for the same price you can buy a PC that will last you for the next decade?

Another thing I do not understand is software on them. I know I probably can't run Win7 or Crysis because it will take a lot of power but where is there no full Office Suite yet? I mean those things were available back in the mid 90's or 80s when PCs were like 33mhz , why cant my 1GHz dual core iPad cant do that?

There's a point where it costs an increasing amount for minor gains. Think of how much more expensive a 50" TV is compared to a 46", or the best graphics card in a given line compared to the second best one. You have to pay a premium to stay on the bleeding edge, and tablets/smartphones are the bleeding edge.

As for Office, I know Android devices will run Open Office, and the Win 8 ARM tablets will come with Office (the x86 tablets can have Office installed). The main reason you don't see Office is that there isn't much of a market for it on a touchscreen-only device.

[MrPopo]

@MrPopo

I know that technology needs time to get it into a small device and it is going to be more expensive, but dont you think we are paying a little too much for smartphones/tablets that are going to be updated next year and obsolete in about 4 years where for the same price you can buy a PC that will last you for the next decade?

Another thing I do not understand is software on them. I know I probably can't run Win7 or Crysis because it will take a lot of power but where is there no full Office Suite yet? I mean those things were available back in the mid 90's or 80s when PCs were like 33mhz , why cant my 1GHz dual core iPad cant do that?

There's a point where it costs an increasing amount for minor gains. Think of how much more expensive a 50" TV is compared to a 46", or the best graphics card in a given line compared to the second best one. You have to pay a premium to stay on the bleeding edge, and tablets/smartphones are the bleeding edge.

As for Office, I know Android devices will run Open Office, and the Win 8 ARM tablets will come with Office (the x86 tablets can have Office installed). The main reason you don't see Office is that there isn't much of a market for it on a touchscreen-only device.

[Erik_Twice]

It depends on how much you want to stretch the term. Mr Popo is talking about the core concept, which is making a product worse so it breaks down earlier and you have to buy a new one. What you guys refer is to the broader concept of making it "obsolete" in the costumer's mind*.

It's a semantics debate, I don't think we disagree at all.


In fact there are two things here:
1) New phones are bought because it's fashionable not because they are good at what they do or because they fulfill any specific need. I'm sorry but most people use their 500$ smartphones to send messages, call and browse the internet. The rest is bullshit.

2) Since fashion goes very fast there's no reason to make a durable phone because people are going to buy a new one every year.


*Except Vestcoat. Not putting those features in is just a cost-cutting measure that the target costumer doesn't care about not planned obsolescence.



Anyways, since 98 or so there has been no reason to upgrade your computers if you just want to surf the internet and write, people just change and buy a new one because they are:
1) Morons
2) Incapable of cleaning the fans
3) Incapable of not downloading 45 adbars
4) Morons

Really, go to any forum where they recommend computers to people and it's always the same drill:

- "I just want a PC to write and surf the internet, my budget is 1500€"
- "Here, take this, it costs 200€", less if you already have a screen.
- "But that's too cheap, shouldn't it be more powerful? Why doesn't it have a l33t graphics card?"
- "No, that's more than enough for what you need"
- "But what about if I want to play the ocassional game?"
- "There's no such a thing, either you spend a lot of money to be able to play them or you don't"
- "YOU SUCK I'M GOING TO GO TO WALMART AND BUY A 2000€ PC RAAAAAAR"

All the time. People are just stupid.