noiseredux vs. Dreamcast ....version 3.0?

[Breetai]

@ Breetai: Gates of Thunder and Lords of Thunder are great, best on the system. Red actually decided to play their game after developing it this time, and they created a game that has a good difficulty. The soldier games I enjoy purely for their caravan modes, but still quite enjoy playing those. Some of the best competition that can be had on a console shooter.

Blazing Lazers though, just like MUSHA, did everything right, and forgot the difficulty completely. Soldier and thunder games aside, unbalanced difficulty of some sort plagues almost every PCE shooter. They are either fall-asleep easy (Dead Moon, Terraforming, Spriggan), or arcade ports that took already difficult games and skewed their difficulty in the easy direction (P47), or the way-too-hard direction (Tatsujin)

I probably wouldn't call the system overrated in seriousness though, that was indeed just a troll, just because I love seeing you talk so passionately about the PCE.

And for the record, I love pre-bullet hell shooters. I think some of the stuff by Seibu, Irem, Video System, and especially Toaplan, Taito, and NMK, is as good or better than a lot of bullet hell shooters. NMK is probably the most underrated shmup dev ever, and its a damn shame.


Yikes, sorry Noise. Just like Breetai to the PCE, I seem to turn any thread slightly related to shmups into a full on shmup-thong-along.

I do agree on the difficulty thing. I played Blazing Lazers for the first time in a couple years about 6 months ago, and was able to 1cc it. That should not happen! Spriggan is also in the easy side, but it's just so fun and pretty...

Sorry again Noise. A lot of people here are crazy for the DC. For me, it's the PC Engine/TG-16 and then the Saturn. Shoot 'em ups are a major reason why. I DO like the DC, but find that it's overrated here. I think the quantity of games (which is just a result of the system's lifespan) and the awkward controller are the main reasons I don't rate it as highly as some other systems. If Sega hadn't pulled the plug on it so quickly, I would definitely have it hooked up more often. One annoying thing about DC shooters is that they all seem to have a gimmick to go with them. There is nothing basic like a DonPachi-type game where you just push start and blow everything up in sight (although Gunbird 2 is pretty much that I guess, but it's a cute 'em up). Everything has some odd thing about it. Giga Wing has it's... "everything dies aura" thing going on, Ikaruga has it's black/white thing, etc.

[dunpeal2064]

Ha ha, yeah, to get back on the DC topic, I also noticed that almost every DC shooter has a "gimmick" of some sort.

I think a big reason for the huge shift in shooter styles from the Saturn to the DC is the amount of shooters we did not see ported. Before the DC shooters were coming out, we got Esp Ra.De, Dangun Feveron, Guwange, Armed Police Batrider, Battle Bakraid, Strikers 1999, and less known manic shooters like Air Gallet, Cyvern, etc.

Those games are all very bullet hell, but most of their variety comes from scoring differences. As cool as those games were, the genre was still dying, so I can see why some new shmup-dev players came into the scene and tried to mix things up by actually giving the games varying gameplay, and not just new scoring mechanics.

It all boils down to what style you like. If you like a shooter where survival isn't too tough (To draw in folks that bawk at Garegga and DDP), but where scoring depth brings a massive amount of challenge, then you will prefer the DC to any 16 bit console.

I don't think the DC got the short end on quantity, as shooters were offocially coming out until 07, and unoffocial games are still coming out. There are more GOOD shooters on the DC than on most systems, there are just less bad ones

To the point of there being nothing like DDP where you just blow stuff up.... it sounds like you are playing DDP wrong As soon as that game starts its gimmick is in your face... if you want to score. You COULD just blow everythig up in Ikaruga too and not chain anything.

Under Defeat, Trizeal, Shiki II, Zero Gunner 2, and Fast Striker are great games that have a traditional blow-shit-up feel to them. Heck, the scoring system in Under Defeat is to shoot EVERYTHING.


Gunbird 2... not a cute em up! and again, you could just blow everything up, or you could try to chain coins with pixel-perfect accuracy and rip your hair out. If you play this game for survival or score, it will be one of the hardest video games you ever play.


I dunno, the more I grind into one style of shooter, the more I appreciate other styles. I love Cave just as much as the next guy, if not more, but sometimes playing Last Hope: Pink Bullets is just so damn satisfying in a completely different way. Same goes for jumping back and playing Metal Black or V-V


Wow... I did not mean to write so damn much.

[mjmjr25]

I think i'm getting a Duo...again.

Nice job, bitches.

[Breetai]

I think i'm getting a Duo...again.

Nice job, bitches.

Success!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To the point of there being nothing like DDP where you just blow stuff up.... it sounds like you are playing DDP wrong

Oh, I'm playing it absolutely right (for me ). I do actually combo, but it's not like an in-your-face-you-must-do-it gimmick. It's an absolutely natural system that doesn't require you to do it if you don't want to. Compare with Ikaruga (or RSG) where you are going to have a very hard time staying alive unless you learn the gimmick.

As soon as that game starts its gimmick is in your face... if you want to score. You COULD just blow everythig up in Ikaruga too and not chain anything.

I was talking about the white/black thing, not chaining.

Under Defeat, Trizeal, Shiki II, Zero Gunner 2, and Fast Striker are great games that have a traditional blow-shit-up feel to them. Heck, the scoring system in Under Defeat is to shoot EVERYTHING.

That's true. Except that Shiki II is a cute 'e.... oh nevermind. It's not.

Gunbird 2... not a cute em up!

Haha, fine. I'll give you that one. I guess I have a hard time not thinking of a game featuring flying cute girls to be a cute 'em up. The style really isn't like a cutie, though. I epic failed!

[foxhound1022]

I can honestly say, even with the great shmups on DC, 90% of the time I fire it up; it's a fighter.

[SamuraiMegas]

I mostly play fighters as well but I still need to get to Rayman 2 but I'm also playing LOZALTTP

[Breetai]

I can honestly say, even with the great shmups on DC, 90% of the time I fire it up; it's a fighter.

For me.... it's usually a fishing game.

[pierrot]

I was just reading your NHL 2k review, and was really intrigued by your thoughts on the AI.
I still have my copy of the game that I bought when the Dreamcast was in production, but I was playing it on an emulator a while back, with keyboard controls, and I found the AI to be too easy.
It's pretty abuse-able: Chip and chase --> Break-out --> Shoot in close on goal --> Poke the rebounds home --> Profit

Anything easy the goalie will eat up like nothing, that's for sure; You have to focus on garbage goals.

Also, NHL 2k2 is the only other 2k hockey game on the DC, so don't tear your hair out looking for NHL 2k1.

[noiseredux]

Yeah I assumed there had to be an exploitable trick that would do it every time. I just couldn't find that trick in my few hours of playing. I'm assuming (hoping) 2K2 improves the AI though? Like I said, I thought pretty much everything else about the game was excellent.

Also, I'm glad someone read that review haha. Sports reviews don't seem to get as much attention (unless you have a sports-themed blog like RSG's).

Like I mentioned elsewhere, I beat THPS2 again this week (for the who-knows-how-many time in my life) so I'm planning to do a write-up on that next as soon as I find the time.

[Luke]

Like I mentioned elsewhere, I beat THPS2 again this week (for the who-knows-how-many time in my life) so I'm planning to do a write-up on that next as soon as I find the time.

Looking forward to that read.

Do you go for perfect runs (all tapes), and if so how many levels can you get through perfectly?