What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Talk about just about anything else that is non-gaming here, but keep it clean
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prfsnl_gmr
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Re: What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Post by prfsnl_gmr »

D.D.D. wrote:
chupon wrote:One of my buddies who after 4 very successful years as a public criminal defense lawyer, who now owns his own practice doing exactly that, has in his 9 years of representing the scum of the earth in America only had two cases where his "Client" was very clearly not guilty.

He frees the worst. rapiests, murders, ect. all on legal technicalities. Hates his life and job but makes bank doing it.

Bottom line. Lawyers and doctors can both be evil. But they can both be good too.
And your friend is a prime example of what's wrong with the world. Tell your friend once the rapists, murderers, etc criminals go on to be repeat offenders, have his money give him a hug next time his guilt tears at his conscience... never mind. Obviously he doesn't have one.
Or a less dickish response, money shouldn't be the focus of our lives.
In the United States, everyone - even accused murderers, rapists, and thieves - are entitled to a defense, and the state must prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt before it is entitled to take away someone's life or liberty. As William Blackstone wrote more than two centuries ago, it is "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." Nonetheless, and even with the very high standard of proof required to execute or incarcerate one of its citizens, the state procures thousands of wrongful convictions each year. Accordingly, a vigorous defense of even the most vile criminals is essential for our justice system to function properly. Even acquittals based on "technicalities" - which are exceptionally rare and which most people do not understand - are essential for protecting our rights against unlawful searches and seizues.

(An example of a "technicality" justifying an acquital: A police officer - who does not like you personally - enters your apartment in the middle of the night without either your permission or a search warrant. He searches through all of your belongings until he finds some marijuana, at which point he places you under arrest. The court in these circumstances would (hopefully) exclude the "fruit" of the unlawful search from trial, making it impossible for the prosecution to convict you. Even though you actually possessed the marijuana - and are therefore guilty of a crime -it is important that the state be punished for the illegal search of your apartment. Otherwise, the state and its officers - which are likely immune from a civil suit - could conduct illegal searches with impunity.)

Moreover, defending criminals (which is not my line of work, by the way) is very difficult. Most judges and jurors assume that anyone arrested by the police is guilty of some sort of crime (or nonetheless worthy of incarceration). Second, the prosecution has the full resources of the state behind it - including a full-time police force - and as a result, has resources far in excess of even the most well-funded criminal defense attorneys. Accordingly, the deck is stacked against a criminal defense attorney at the outset, and as a general rule, only the flimsiest cases result in an acquittal.

Defending criminals is also not very rewarding. As illustrated by the comments above, most people have a very low opinion of even the best, most ethical criminal defense attorneys, and winning a hard-fought acquittal of someone you consider guilty is not a personally satisfying result. (Helping an innocent person avoid a wrongful conviction, however, is likely an execptionally rewarding experience.) Finally, criminal defense attorneys - by lawyer standards - do not make a lot of money. People who commit or are accused of commiting crimes are generally not very wealthy, and only a very few criminal defense attorneys make as much as their counterparts in civil practice.

Accordingly, please reconsider your position before you condemn criminal defense attorneys. As I stated above, they are essential for the proper functioning of our justice system and the protection of our civil rights. Moreover, if you ever find yourself accused of a serious crime, you will be very, very glad to have one on your side - even one who could procure your acquittal on a "technicality".
Last edited by prfsnl_gmr on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
gtmtnbiker
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Re: What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Post by gtmtnbiker »

Michi wrote:
BoringSupreez wrote:: :( : Discovered I've reached the age at which fair/carnival rides are no longer fun. The rides suck compared to those at amusement parks, and the workers are all rude or grumpy. Oh well, my younger siblings thought the rides were tremendous fun.
Ah, yes. I remember the year I made that discovery. The year before everything had been great and I'd had a blast. Went back the next year.... fond childhood memories destroyed :( Those were sad days.
I still enjoy going to amusement parks but I find that I do get a lot of satisfaction watching my kids have funs on the rides. Something that I didn't think was possible when I was a kid myself.

I'm planning to take my kids to a water park (Water Country, Portsmouth, NH) next week. Hope it's still hot out.
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Jmustang1968
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Re: What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Post by Jmustang1968 »

Its not the criminal defense lawyers who bother me. As prfsnl gamer pointed out, they perform a necessary service.

The lawyers I dislike are the ambulance chaser types look for a quick buck and profiting on others misery or greed. They help to empower and make money for those who want to scam the system or sue in hopes of a settlement by a company that finds the settlement cheaper than legal fees.
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Luke
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Re: What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Post by Luke »

prfsnl_gmr wrote: Moreover, if you ever find yourself accused of a serious crime, you will be very, very glad to have one on your side - even one who could procure your acquittal on a "technicality".
Media has given defense attorneys an unwarranted bad name. Defense attorneys in movies may as will come equipped with forked tongues, a monocle, and money literally falling out of their pockets. There's also a weird belief, even with educated people, that a lawyer is a lawyer is a lawyer, and they drive bmw's and make tons of money.

Okay, so one of my friends who is a lawyer drives a bmw, given to him by his parents for graduating.

But there are thousands of lawyers who live check to check in a lower-middle class level, and there are thousands of lawyers who do nothing but look at a ticket and say "go pay the clerk", all day, every day. That's their job, look at a ticket, say "pay the clerk". Being a lawyer isn't always glamorous. And divorce lawyers. Yeesh. I see how it can be rewarding, but knowing what goes on behind closed doors and tearing apart a family has to be tough as nails.

And yes, big cases have lawyers that simply hoodwink the jury but I doubt that's what lawyers do on a daily basis.
gtmtnbiker wrote:
I'm planning to take my kids to a water park (Water Country, Portsmouth, NH) next week. Hope it's still hot out.
One in five adults, yes adults, admit to peeing in pools. That's 20 pisses in the pool for every 100 adults. I'd wager 70% of kids pee in the pool every visit. I'm not OCD, but public water (pools) and public food (buffets) give me the willies.
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Luke
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Re: What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Post by Luke »

Jmustang1968 wrote: The lawyers I dislike are the ambulance chaser types look for a quick buck and profiting on others misery or greed. They help to empower and make money for those who want to scam the system or sue in hopes of a settlement by a company that finds the settlement cheaper than legal fees.

Our police and government services provide these types of lawyers with this service (possibly not in all states). It's public record, the lawyers are really ambulance chasers, but still, you need to find clients if you are in the service business.

To add, usually it's the client, not the lawyer who is really after all the cash. The "Were you injured while working" clients, and I am making an assumption, are more money hungry than the lawyer representing them.
Last edited by Luke on Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Post by Gunstar Green »

Luke wrote:
Forlorn Drifter wrote:Luke, you forget that only about 10% of lawyers, if that, are in the business to help people.
I'd say with lawyers it's more like 50%.

With doctors, I'd say 33% tops.
I've always been lucky with doctors. A specialist of mine whose service I direly needed didn't charge me a dime to see him when I lost my insurance for a while.
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prfsnl_gmr
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Re: What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Post by prfsnl_gmr »

Luke wrote:
Jmustang1968 wrote: The lawyers I dislike are the ambulance chaser types look for a quick buck and profiting on others misery or greed. They help to empower and make money for those who want to scam the system or sue in hopes of a settlement by a company that finds the settlement cheaper than legal fees.

Our police and government services provide these types of lawyers with this service (possibly not in all states). It's public record, the lawyers are really ambulance chasers, but still, you need to find clients if you are in the service business.

To add, usually it's the client, not the lawyer who is really after all the cash. The "Where you injured while working" clients, and I am making an assumption, are more money hungry than the lawyer representing them.
I will agree with this. Plaintiffs' attorneys - generally - have a good understanding of the law and do not want to expend time and resources on frivolous litigation. It is the money-hungry clients who think that they are going to get millions of dollars for a paper cut. (That said, plaintiffs' attorneys know that litigating a case to trial is always expensive, and they will use that point as leverage during settlement negotiations in every case. You just have to remind them that it will be expensive for them too...especially if they are on a contingency and their client walks away empty-handed.)

EDIT: After more closely reviewing jmustang1968's comment. I will state that it is generally correct. I have seen a lot of attorneys who "empower" plaintiffs with frivolous claims. I do not (usually) attribute their motivation to greed, however. These lawyers are often very passionate about their clients' claims, and there is not a lot of money in frivolous lawsuits. They are just too oblivious to know that their clients' claims are terrible...
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Luke
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Re: What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Post by Luke »

My friend made a good point:

a Doctor is required to "do no harm"
a Lawyer is required to "zealously advocate for his client's interests"
the do no harm is passive and not an affirmative requirement
a lawyer's requires actual action
that is all philosophical though
because I know of Dr.'s who will assist in suicide and take bribes from medical supply/pharmaceutical companies
and I know of Lawyers who will accept bribes from adversaries
know of is loose there

^from the lawyer friend I can trust, and not from the asshole lawyer friend. He's a "tell me everything" lawyer, not a "tell me only what I need to know to win this case" lawyer.
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Luke
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Re: What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Post by Luke »

Smile: A dumb joke:

A young child blows out his birthday candles, and his wish comes true; he gets to ask God three questions.

Child: "How long is a million billion years to you?"

God: But a second my child.

Child: "How much is a million billion dollars worth to you?"

God: But a penny to me my child.

Child: "Can I have a penny then?"

God: Yes, in a second.
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D.D.D.
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Re: What Made you Smile/What Ticked you off Today?

Post by D.D.D. »

prfsnl_gmr wrote:
D.D.D. wrote:
chupon wrote:One of my buddies who after 4 very successful years as a public criminal defense lawyer, who now owns his own practice doing exactly that, has in his 9 years of representing the scum of the earth in America only had two cases where his "Client" was very clearly not guilty.

He frees the worst. rapiests, murders, ect. all on legal technicalities. Hates his life and job but makes bank doing it.

Bottom line. Lawyers and doctors can both be evil. But they can both be good too.
And your friend is a prime example of what's wrong with the world. Tell your friend once the rapists, murderers, etc criminals go on to be repeat offenders, have his money give him a hug next time his guilt tears at his conscience... never mind. Obviously he doesn't have one.
Or a less dickish response, money shouldn't be the focus of our lives.
I am sorry, but this comment displays complete ignorance of both the rule of law and due process.

In the United States, everyone - even accused murderers, rapists, and thieves - are entitled to a defense, and the state must prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt before it is entitled to take away someone's life or liberty. As William Blackstone wrote more than two centuries ago, it is "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." Nonetheless, and even with the very high standard of proof required to execute or incarcerate one of its citizens, the state procures thousands of wrongful convictions each year. Accordingly, a vigorous defense of even the most vile criminals is essential for our justice system to function properly. Even acquittals based on "technicalities" - which are exceptionally rare and which most people do not understand - are essential for protecting our rights against unlawful searches and seizues.

(An example of a "technicality" justifying an acquital: A police officer - who does not like you personally - enters your apartment in the middle of the night without either your permission or a search warrant. He searches through all of your belongings until he finds some marijuana, at which point he places you under arrest. The court in these circumstances would (hopefully) exclude the "fruit" of the unlawful search from trial, making it impossible for the prosecution to convict you. Even though you actually possessed the marijuana - and are therefore guilty of a crime -it is important that the state be punished for the illegal search of your apartment. Otherwise, the state and its officers - which are likely immune from a civil suit - could conduct illegal searches with impunity.)

Moreover, defending criminals (which is not my line of work, by the way) is very difficult. Most judges and jurors assume that anyone arrested by the police is guilty of some sort of crime (or nonetheless worthy of incarceration). Second, the prosecution has the full resources of the state behind it - including a full-time police force - and as a result, has resources far in excess of even the most well-funded criminal defense attorneys. Accordingly, the deck is stacked against a criminal defense attorney at the outset, and as a general rule, only the flimsiest cases result in an acquittal.

Defending criminals is also not very rewarding. As illustrated by the comments above, most people have a very low opinion of even the best, most ethical criminal defense attorneys, and winning a hard-fought acquittal of someone you consider guilty is not a personally satisfying result. (Helping an innocent person avoid a wrongful conviction, however, is likely an execptionally rewarding experience.) Finally, criminal defense attorneys - by lawyer standards - do not make a lot of money. People who commit or are accused of commiting crimes are generally not very wealthy, and only a very few criminal defense attorneys make as much as their counterparts in civil practice.

Accordingly, please think a bit a harder before you condemn criminal defense attorneys. As I stated above, they are essential for the proper functioning of our justice system and the protection of our civil rights. Moreover, if you ever find yourself accused of a serious crime, you will be very, very glad to have one on your side - even one who could procure your acquittal on a "technicality".
What you said does not match the integrity of that dude's friend, exaggerated or not, you missed the context. If you actually are a lawyer to uphold the law, not do it for money regardless of the law, then you're fine.
True, most people who commit crimes are poor but then again, are also stupid. Don't break the law and you're likely not going to have many problems in life. Having something "planted" on your or in your house, is another issue. Same thing though, if you break the law or attract attention to you in a bad way, something bad may happen, so maybe don't smoke weed etc.
I know enough how the US legal system works (to a fair extent - 3 lawyers in the family) and nothing you said is new. I still think the US legal system is messed up. Too many loopholes, too much leniency, and too bogged down by bogus lawsuits and people who just want to exploit it. Good for you to defend criminals. Keep up the good work. :roll:
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