BurningDoom wrote:Not to knock Heath Ledger's performance...
That will always be up for an "e-bate".
So much subjectivity involved on "who is the better Joker", and the crux of that argument is based on not the character, but how the character fits in the screenplay.
Lets face it, TDK is as silly as the other Nolan Batman films but we can't take our eyes off the Joker and how well he fits Nolan's view of chaos personified.
Burton's Joker exceeds any expectations and is even a bit more of a sadistic creep. Nolan's Joker is more manipulative, but Burton's has no heart, but a plan.
I loved the way Nicholson's Joker acted, but in the comics the Joker is a man of action... I can't picture Jack as a man of action and throwing down with Batman.
So the edge goes to Ledger. (Newsarama agrees)
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SpaceBooger wrote:I loved the way Nicholson's Joker acted, but in the comics the Joker is a man of action... I can't picture Jack as a man of action and throwing down with Batman.
So the edge goes to Ledger. (Newsarama agrees)
You're forgetting he shot down the Batplane.
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SpaceBooger wrote:I loved the way Nicholson's Joker acted, but in the comics the Joker is a man of action... I can't picture Jack as a man of action and throwing down with Batman.
So the edge goes to Ledger. (Newsarama agrees)
You're forgetting he shot down the Batplane.
Yeah... Even when I saw that as a kid, I thought that was the weakest scene in the movie.
I wasn't a big fan of Nicholson's Joker, but I agree with Luke in that he seems more like a sadistic creep. Ledger's Joker, on the other hand, really made me believe he was an agent of chaos, and ultimately, a much greater threat.
Finally saw The Dark Knight Rises, I enjoyed it. However, I think this trilogy peaked with the last movie. Heath Ledger's Joker is a hard act to follow. Honestly, can you EVER best Joker as a villain? Nolan has done great work with Batman, but I think it can be done better and I'm eagerly awaiting the next Batman reboot to see if that happens.
What I liked:
The reveal of Talia as the villain (that woman acted the shit out of that role too)
Seeing Robin take up the mantle of the Bat, which fits with comic continuity if we view this guy as Nolan's version of Richard Grayson
What I didn't like:
I don't know what was more grating, Bale's Batman voice or Bane's voice.
Anne Hathaway didn't really amaze me as Catwoman. Pfeifer still is the best Cat we've ever seen. We can throw Anne Hathaway in with Halle Berry.
Robin Blake? We couldn't just call him Dick? or Tim? or Jason? I honestly don't know which Robin they were going for with his story. I guess a mix of the three. I honestly think it would have been cooler if they went with some Nightwing references, like saying this guy was a cop transferred from Bloodhaven and maybe have him say some line at some point in the movie about not liking capes.
Things I want in the next Batman franchise:
Lose the stupid Batman voice. Honestly, I'd rather they just get the new actor to use the same voice for Bruce and Batman. If no one questioned why no one figured out that Clark was Superman in those movies, people can buy no one realizing that Batman sounds like Bruce Wayne. If they MUST have the guy do two voices, then make him spend a weekend with Kevin Conroy to learn to do it right.
Lose the military style for the Bat vehicles. I don't like it. I want a return to the sleeker look that used to characterize the Bat vehicles. Bat vehicles should be high tech and stylish, not brutish, tank like vehicles
Let's get an actor who knows REAL martial arts and can do his own stunts. The fights in The Dark Knight Rises looked so slow and boring. I can see better martial arts on TV watching current shows like Nikita, Arrow or old episodes of Joss Whedon's Angel. Comic book Batman fights MUCH better than the movie version Nolan gave us. Hell the combat in the recent games by Rocksteady look better than the fights in the movie. Nolan's Batman does NOT strike me as one of the world's greatest martial artists. Hell, if we have to, let's get Donnie Yen stunt doubling for the next Batman actor
No more solo Batman movies. The next franchise needs Oracle, Nightwing, Huntress(who got a big TV debut recently on Arrow) and Damian Wayne. If people love badass Carl on The Walking Dead, they'll enjoy a dark, badass kid apprentice in Damien Wayne. Hey, it worked in Kick ass. If they do a Batgirl in the next franchise, it should be Cassandra Cain. You can easily get a Hong Kong movie badass female to play her
The villains for the next trilogy? Court of Owls could make for a good movie, and bring in Batman's brother Lincoln March since every good Batman movie needs to explore his past at least a little bit. We need Joker again for the second movie. You can't go wrong with Joker. Jack Nicholson, Heath Ledger, Mark Hammill, they all killed it as Joker. You can't fuck up Joker in Batman movies. I've yet to see it happen.
I think they could also do an Arkham break out storyline for a Batman movie. With different villains running around Gotham, and a chance to maybe have one or two Bat family members have to help Batman. If they are working towards a Justice League movie, we need a Batman who can fight super powered enemies. So you can feature villains like Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy, etc. We need to see a lot more Bat gadgets, and a faster, more athletic Batman with more martial expertise. The next Batman needs to be a SUPER HERO. We need to pull back a bit on Nolan's super realistic portrayal. I want the next franchise to be more comic booky, but still serious, a nice middle road between Burton and Nolan. And you NEED to feature other members of the Bat family to get people used to the idea of Batman working with others. Each Bat family member featured in the new movies though should have a dark portrayal to fit Batman's dark personality. None of the Joel Schumaker crap. You have a dark Damien as Robin(which we can do now since Nolan got people familiar with Talia and her family), and maybe have some dialog to mention a former sidekick who died (Jason Todd)and make mention of Oracle getting paralyzed by an enemy of Batman, and you have a somber Cassandra Cain as Batgirl.
Last edited by Gamerforlife on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
RyaNtheSlayA wrote:
Seriously. Screw you Shao Kahn I'm gonna play Animal Crossing.
Gamerforlife wrote:. You can't fuck up Joker in Batman movies. I've yet to see it happen.
It's happened. Google Michael Emerson, Dark Knight Returns. I think Dark Knight Returns was terrible, with even terrible(r) art. The animated movie is nearly a PERFECT retelling. It's awful, chooses a terrible voice over actor (Peter Weller, I mean I love the guy but not as Batman), and then Michael Emerson plays Joker. Or at least will play him in the 2nd part, since the one that came out was just the first part.
Gamerforlife wrote:
No more solo Batman movies. The next franchise needs Oracle, Nightwing, Huntress(who got a big TV debut recently on Arrow) and Damian Wayne.
For a split second I thought you were suggesting a Batman & Damon Wayans team-up movie, which I would gladly watch.
Gamerforlife wrote:
Anne Hathaway didn't really amaze me as Catwoman. Pfeifer still is the best Cat we've ever seen. We can throw Anne Hathaway in with Halle Berry.
Yikes. I totally get preferring Pfeifer, but come on. Anne is leagues above what Halle Berry did.
Gamerforlife wrote:Lose the stupid Batman voice. Honestly, I'd rather they just get the new actor to use the same voice for Bruce and Batman. If no one questioned why no one figured out that Clark was Superman in those movies, people can buy no one realizing that Batman sounds like Bruce Wayne. If they MUST have the guy do two voices, then make him spend a weekend with Kevin Conroy to learn to do it right.
I pretty much agree with you here (though I actually liked Bane's voice a lot), but I want to point out... the first 1/2 or so of Superman II revolved around Louis pretty damn quickly and easily figuring out that Clark Kent was Superman and her trying to get him to reveal himself.
