What single player FPS campaign are you playing?

[MrPopo]

So in order to move a body, you have to drop the knife you're carrying from the last guy if you haven't already, hope they're not carrying some other weapon you already have, loot them, then pick them up to hide them behind the dumpster.

So that's definitely a case of "you're doing it wrong". When you loot those bodies the knife would drop on the ground since you cannot pick it up (same with equipment that you don't have room for).

The boxiness of the level design, I can understand where you're coming from on that. That's one of those things that never bothered me because these were supposed to be real world locations in urban areas or functional industrial stuff, which tends on the uninspired rectangcular prism side.

The flare thing, that's just a nitpick and you know it. That was essentially the state of collision physics of the era. You had two options; everything clips, or everything is actually a box that stacks nicely. Havok was a few years off.

The Anna thing, that's one of those "you had to know to do that" things. And you could form a reasonable narrative your actions that leave that scene consistent. I do understand where you're coming from on the Gunther thing, but the two options are "invincible" or "infinite respawn". Neither is ideal.

[Hobie-wan]

So in order to move a body, you have to drop the knife you're carrying from the last guy if you haven't already, hope they're not carrying some other weapon you already have, loot them, then pick them up to hide them behind the dumpster.

So that's definitely a case of "you're doing it wrong". When you loot those bodies the knife would drop on the ground since you cannot pick it up (same with equipment that you don't have room for).

I'm pretty sure that wasn't happening for me. Either I got a message that I already had one or the body wasn't empty or something when I tried to pick it up. I don't remember anything ever automatically dropping for me.

The boxiness of the level design, I can understand where you're coming from on that. That's one of those things that never bothered me because these were supposed to be real world locations in urban areas or functional industrial stuff, which tends on the uninspired rectangcular prism side.

Even stuff like the gas station which was a tiny map surrounded by blackness was uninspired and boring. Lots of Half Life was 'functional industrial stuff' too. I'm sure there are some boxy areas not coming to mind right now, but I definitely didn't think "oh boy, more boxes" throughout the entire game like DE.

The flare thing, that's just a nitpick and you know it. That was essentially the state of collision physics of the era. You had two options; everything clips, or everything is actually a box that stacks nicely. Havok was a few years off.

I know, but it still bothered me since I reached a point I realized I wasn't using any flares so I might as well just drop them all. Though they could have arbitrarily spread them across the floor a bit. Randomized clipping spread out in a few square feet around me would have been preferable IMHO. Someone had to have dropped a bunch of their inventory in one spot at some point in testing and made a similar stack o crap. I suppose that's one of those low priority bugs though.

The Anna thing, that's one of those "you had to know to do that" things. And you could form a reasonable narrative your actions that leave that scene consistent. I do understand where you're coming from on the Gunther thing, but the two options are "invincible" or "infinite respawn". Neither is ideal.

With Anna, the encounter happened and I said "wait no, I don't want to have it happen that way". So I reloaded a previous save and experimented. My prerogative since I have saves and I'm playing a game. Yes a bit of a nitpick too, but still an error. People have been abusing errors and bugs in games forever. I thought it was sloppy to have her marked her that way until the dialog called for it.

With Gunther, it could have been written differently.

The fact he'd walk up to you himself to subdue you was the problem. You could get him to walk down the stairs into mines and whatnot where you could just shoot at him and ignore the rest. I had plenty of health to run to the barriers that you couldn't jump over or the shacks with the manhole that opened, but you just simply couldn't go down it. The fact that I could make it to those buildings or have time to shoot Gunther that much was problematic.

If I decided to resist and Gunther stayed away, then I took damage fast enough to not even leave the stairwell without collapsing, then Gunther came over and talked to me before I passed out that would have been fine.

If there's been some super duper weapon so he shot me once from a distance as soon as I came up the stairs, then came over to talk to me before I passed out, that would have been fine. Some ULTRA MEGA EXPERIMENTAL RAY OF SUBDUCTION that conveniently overloads and blows up just as you're captured would have been better than that solution they used. It would have fit in with the hokey conspiracy theory crap too. They could have even said they captured it from the guys researching the grays.

If they'd actually blocked off the area with something I really wouldn't have been able to pass instead of being able to run at dumb or nonexistent barriers for 20 seconds while being shot in the ass, that would have been marginally better.

Maybe Gunther could have been in a chopper over a loudspeaker and not come down until I'd been subdued by endless troops.

[Xeogred]

The mirror thing is a hilarious nitpick as well. Please name any game that's done that realistically THAT well if you can. The mirror thing has been hilarious to me since DN3D. No game does it well.

And the boxes thing... least the first collection of screens there are just silly, since you're not supposed to be clipping through the air looking down below anywhere in the game.

Also dude, considering I've beaten the game like 10 times at least... I think it's worth mentioning I don't once remember having inventory management troubles.

Knives and whatnot always automatically dropped for me as well when looting bodies. I was pretty confused about what you were saying there, but Popo mentioning it... and yep, that's how it always worked for me. On both the PC and PS2 versions. Picking up bodies was always easy, so I don't know what happened with your game.

I WANTED ORANGE AND IT GAVE ME LEMON LIME!

[Hobie-wan]

The mirror thing is a hilarious nitpick as well. Please name any game that's done that realistically THAT well if you can. The mirror thing has been hilarious to me since DN3D. No game does it well.

Then don't put it in the game unless you intend it to be a joke. DN3D - silly game. DE - serious game. I can't think of any at the moment, but there have been games that did mirrors just fine without really obvious stuff like pointing the bun out versus across your chest.

And the boxes thing... least the first collection of screens there are just silly, since you're not supposed to be clipping through the air looking down below anywhere in the game.

Those are all legitimate screenshots with no clipping or being somewhere the game doesn't expect you to be able to be. The first is from the crane in the ship level. The second was simply on top of a building in one of the city levels. Likely in the latter half of the game. I think the other 2 were in the water canals in HK.

Also dude, considering I've beaten the game like 10 times at least... I think it's worth mentioning I don't once remember having inventory management troubles.

Knives and whatnot always automatically dropped for me as well when looting bodies. I was pretty confused about what you were saying there, but Popo mentioning it... and yep, that's how it always worked for me. On both the PC and PS2 versions. Picking up bodies was always easy, so I don't know what happened with your game.

I know I didn't start dropping inventory items just for fun so I could move bodies until I discovered it didn't even matter and I could just leave them in the open. I specifically remember having to do the damn knife juggle in the dockside level before the underwater one. I had to reload a few times because I was trying to take care of the guards and got shot several times by the robots while trying to pick up the bodies to drag them off into the shadows, but couldn't fast enough.

[J T]

I like Deus Ex, but I always love to watch Hobie hate it.

The mirror pics:

[Hobie-wan]

The mirror thing is a hilarious nitpick as well. Please name any game that's done that realistically THAT well if you can. The mirror thing has been hilarious to me since DN3D. No game does it well.

There's a bit of 'lag' in the reflection, but Doom 3 is an example of a better mirror.


Seeing yourself in Quake 4 after going through the process. Mind the music, skip to 4:45, spoilers and obnoxiously distorted music otherwise.


Portal kind of gives you a mirror effect the way you can see yourself with certain placements. As I recall there were a few times you could see yourself from another angle in Prey as well.

[MrPopo]

You realize that Doom 3 is the only game you should be using as a comparison. Everything else came later and technology improved. It'd be like complaining that Super Mario Bros. looks terrible, why couldn't they make the graphics nice like in Super Mario Bros. 3?

[Xeogred]

I know I didn't start dropping inventory items just for fun so I could move bodies until I discovered it didn't even matter and I could just leave them in the open. I specifically remember having to do the damn knife juggle in the dockside level before the underwater one. I had to reload a few times because I was trying to take care of the guards and got shot several times by the robots while trying to pick up the bodies to drag them off into the shadows, but couldn't fast enough.

Should've taken the GEP gun.

And yeah lets see some good mirrors from 2000.

[Hobie-wan]

And yeah lets see some good mirrors from 2000.

That wasn't a stipulation of your comment. You said "No game does it well." My point is that it was being included in 2000, and should have only been included if it was a jokey novelty or done correctly. Deus Ex is a game that was aiming for being 'sci-fi realistic'. When I saw it for the first time I thought "oh cool, a mirror and it looks better than the DN3D ones", then I immediately thought "why is my gun pointed in the other direction?" Granted the game had a very tenuous grasp on my suspension of disbelief, but that totally pulled me out of it.

It isn't like that's my only complaint about the game. It is just another factor that contributed to the terrible whole. I'll repost these links to prove I'm not the only person who thought it was terrible.

http://web.archive.org/web/200108052346 ... eusex.html
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/06 ... d-deus-ex/

[Stark]

Still playing through Medal of Honor, about 3 hours in, I assume about halfway. My only complaint so far is controller support. It doesn't tell you what button is mapped to what and it can get confusing. Like it otherwise.