Gun Control

[Ack]

unless you pay for and carry special licenses, you cannot legally possess a weapon that can shoot fully automatic.

Is this federal law? What does it cost for the license, and is the extra cost intended to be prohibitive? Just curious...

I am all for rigorous gun legislation that requires proper checks, waiting limits, bans on certain military grade weapons, etc. But the basic idea of being able to own a handgun or a rifle for self defense, sport, or as a hobby is and should be a protected right. I can't conceptualize any fair gun legislation that would have stopped Aurora or, frankly, most gun-related crime.

Yes, it does. It requires a Class 3 Firearms License, which requires a submitted application to the ATF along with fingerprints and ID photos, all of which must be paid for by the applying individual. Class 3's are meant for firearms dealers, so they bring in added taxes and additional rules and regulations governing the owning and transferring of firearms. Additionally, all such firearms require a Stamp Tax. In some cases, depending on the weapon, any related material such as ammunition or magazines may require additional paperwork, taxes, and wait times (in some cases, six months for a single round of ammunition, depending on the weapon). Guidelines for this were setup in the National Firearms Act of 1934, as well as the Gun Control Act of 1968.

ZeroAX, the funny thing about gun crime in the US is that the areas that experience the most usually have the stricter gun laws. Take Chicago, Illinois, for instance. Chicago has very strict laws concerning the possession and carrying of firearms, yet it possess a homicide rate numerically comparative to New York City, which is three times its size. Washington D.C. is another city that has extremely strict gun laws, yet crime has only managed to increase as a result. Much of this crime is perpetuated by poor minorities though, which I feel point to much larger social problems within the United States. I don't feel that the firearms are the problem, but instead how American society works.

Sabrage, you asked for reasons why anyone would need to own a firearm, and I gave you several why rural people might, though admittedly some of those problems plague suburban areas as well. As for inner cities, I don't know what sort of fantasy land you live in where you think human beings get along and play nice, but I live in Atlanta and own firearms to protect my apartment from anyone who might try breaking in and doing me harm. Is that likely? No, considering I live in a gated apartment complex. But having had too many conversations in which people have said "Oh, Atlanta's safe. I've only been mugged twice in the last three years," I think I'm going to hedge my bets by keeping weapons handy.

Also, since you feel the need to insult where I'm from, I should tell you that I find being called a "hick" offensive, and if you do it again, I will discuss your rules violations with the moderating staff.

[Erik_Twice]

I can easily see why Italy is that high but I didn't know about Portugal. Any reason why it's three times the rate of Spain?

[Ack]

Yeah the countries above the US all have long standing issues and problems with gang crime. Not saying that gangs arent a problem in the US or the UK, but generally tend to be more focused than the terrible attack in Colorado.

My last thing on this inane topic is, you semi-frequently hear about kids who found their parents' gun and accidentally shot one of their friends or siblings etc. How often do we hear that "thanks to my gun, I was able to fend off an intruder"?
And none of this will change so I can't waste any more time on this~

Sorry, are you saying that the occasional accident is more, or less frequent that people reporting using their guns in self defense?

Accidents seem to come up more often. You never hear about reports saying that self-defense worked.

Actually, I hear more about self defense working than I hear about accidents. I've heard of several instances in the last year in which older people carrying firearms have defended themselves effectively when assaulted by individuals armed with knives, baseball bats, or other firearms. I have heard of one instance in the last year where a child was accidentally shot. But self defense cases generally don't make the national news unless a much murkier problem has entered the fray, such as racism.

[Luke]

Isn't Gun Control somewhat of an oxymoron?

We need more People Control in my opinion.

[MrPopo]

But self defense cases generally don't make the national news unless a much murkier problem has entered the fray, such as racism.

This. A headline of "bad stuff didn't happen" isn't newsworthy unless there is something more to the story. 90-year old grandma successfully fights off ex-Navy SEAL mugger using her walker is newsworthy. 35-year old white American male gets intruder to leave his home by showing is gun is not.

[Menegrothx]

ZeroAX, the funny thing about gun crime in the US is that the areas that experience the most usually have the stricter gun laws. Take Chicago, Illinois, for instance.

According to this Georgia, Illinois and Arizona are rougly on the same level (Illinois has more gun murders, but Georgia has a higher overall murder rate). It's from 2004 though. New York and Minnesota both have fairly strict gun laws if I'm not mistake and both have considerably lower homicide rates. Louisiana has the highest gun homicide rate and if I recall correctly, New Orleans has been for years the "murder capital" of America now. Vermont has the lowest percentage of gun homicides (18.8%) despite the fact that they were for a long time the only state with an unrestricted carry law.

It just goes to show that whether you have strict or loose gunlaws, it's pretty irrelevant. I think you'll find much higher correlation between high gun violence rates and high unemployment rates, poverty and demographics, as there are examples within the United States of safe and dangerous places with strict gun control and safe and dangerous places with unrestrictive gun laws.

[Ack]

Interesting. I was unaware that New Orleans had earned that title. I thought Detroit still carried it, but I suppose that shows how behind the curve I am.

[Forlorn Drifter]

Interesting. I was unaware that New Orleans had earned that title. I thought Detroit still carried it, but I suppose that shows how behind the curve I am.

There's so much more that goes into New Orleans nowadays. Gangs, racial issues, general mugging, problems left from Katrina, and a large influx of voodoo and other such things coming back into the lime light over there have made murder that much more common.

I'm with Ack on most of this. I think your views can differ a lot, but growing up in the country has pushed me to believe that owning a gun is nearly a must. Feral dogs depredating stock, dealing with foxes and raccoons in the feed, coyotes, etc.

On the point of defense, I know at least 3 people who may be dead if they hadn't had their CHGL. One friend of my Dad's, from a bigger city, he had a guy throw him on the ground and put a knife on his throat, pushing hard enough to draw blood. But the assaulter felt that .45 barrel touch his stomach, and he fled, leaving the man to get to the hospital. Just an example of why its not a bad idea.

Isn't Gun Control somewhat of an oxymoron?

We need more People Control in my opinion.

This.

And just to point out, no matter what you do, you can always get a gun. Especially in places with access to ports or borders. Y'know, all of the non land blocked areas of Earth...

[t0yrobo]

It just goes to show that whether you have strict or loose gunlaws, it's pretty irrelevant. I think you'll find much higher correlation between high gun violence rates and high unemployment rates, poverty and demographics, as there are examples within the United States of safe and dangerous places with strict gun control and safe and dangerous places with unrestrictive gun laws.

That doesn't get brought up nearly enough. Poverty and crime have well established correlation, gun laws and crime not so much. Anyway, not a single social issue could be attributed to only 2 factors.

I'm all for people having guns, but when it comes to something like the Aurora ordeal there's definitely a need to take a hard look at what happened. He was wearing kevlar body armor, there's no reason for that to be readily available to civilians. I can't imagine anyone but criminals getting much use out of it. He was also using a AR15 with a drum magazine. AR15's aren't hunting rifles, and they're impractical for self defense (like all rifles), and there's simply no practical reason for drum magazines. Same with tear gas canisters. I'm all for people being able to get guns for legitimate reasons, but making it possible to legally outfit a paramilitary mercenary squad doesn't make a lick of sense.

Oh and training. I had shot more rounds from a handgun in designed self defense situations when I was 16 and couldn't even own a handgun, than nearly everyone I know with a CCW. There's something horribly wrong with that picture.

[J T]

And how do you all suggest we do this "people control"?

My specialty is in suicide prevention and the first thing you want to do in helping a suicidal persons is to remove their means of harming themselves. You can then work on all the other stuff to help them develop a life worth living, but a suicidally depressed person who keeps a firearm in the house is pretty much like having an alcoholic who keeps beer in the fridge.

People are bringing up that there are lots of ways to kill a person (whether that be yourself or someone else), which is true, but there are few ways of killing that are as widely understood and as easy to do as pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger. It's just easier than other methods and more likely to come to mind. While it's true that the truly determined and creatively minded individual can come up with a variety of ways to end life, many homicides and suicides are done more "in the heat of the moment" in a more impulsive manner. A lot of people ruminate about suicide or homicide, but they only have brief moments when they feel the urge to act on those thoughts and if they don't have easy access to a firearm in those moments, then the urge will subside and noone will be killed.

I'm not necessarily advocating for banning firearms. I just want to make sure that we are honest about the dangers of firearm ownership and how deadly incidents with them often play out (the recent Batman movie shooting is a bit unusual because these things are not often so planned out and random at the same time). That being said, I do think gun control is necessary at a minimum.